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Belial's Brood in 2nd Edition

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  • #31
    Cheers! Flattered, truly.

    There is a problem of ambiguity in the formulation of the no touchstones drawback. Is that no attached touchstones or no touchstones at all? If the latter, that’d mean Languid’d come into play. Which is pretty crippling.

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    • #32
      That's a really good point. I totally forgot about the Languid condition.

      So, here's a revision:

      Mystery Cult initiation - Belial's Brood
      Gain the Occult (Strix) specialty for free.
      •• Gain the Atrocious, Cutthroat or Enticing merit for free.
      ••• Gain the Indomitable merit for free.
      •••• Gain the Riding the Wave Style (•••) merit for free.
      ••••• Gain a free dot in both 'Composure' and 'Resolve' (this can raise the attribute above 5 only if you have 'Blood Potency' 6 or higher). Your 'Humanity' can never be higher than 5. You are not allowed to have the 'Touchstones' merit.



      Edit: Given the nature of the Brood and the fact that they don't care about humanity, a lot of them will become draugrs. But I think there should be a way out for Belial's Brood members. So I came up with this merit:


      Become one with the Beast (
      •••)
      Prerequisite: Mystery Cult initiation - Belial's Brood
      As a member of the Brood, you learned how to harness the Beast inside you and become one with it. When you drop to 'Humanity' 0, you do not become a draugr and do not lose control over yourself. Although you still become a slave to your Beast's desires, you are able to steer those desires as if you are 'Riding the Wave'. When at 'Humanity' 0, you are technically always in frenzy, but also always 'Riding the Wave'. As well; you are allowed to regain 'Humanity' by spending experience, even when you are at 'Humanity' 0.
      Drawback: Becoming one with the Beast means you have trouble staying in touch with your humanity. While you have this merit, buying back 'Humanity' with experience always costs 3 experience per dot. As well; when you are at 'Humanity' 0, Kindred outside of the Brood will not recognize the difference between a draugr and you; and willt treat you as any ordinary draugr.
      Last edited by Ventrue Life; 04-12-2018, 01:00 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Howalt View Post
        Cheers! Flattered, truly.

        There is a problem of ambiguity in the formulation of the no touchstones drawback. Is that no attached touchstones or no touchstones at all? If the latter, that’d mean Languid’d come into play. Which is pretty crippling.
        The Languid Condition is brought on by losing your last Touchstone, not by having no Touchstones. Also, there is prescedent for this “you are no longer able to maintain Touchstones” effect, in the form of the Pledge to the Worthless One Ritual.


        Onyx Path Forum Moderator

        My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

          The Languid Condition is brought on by losing your last Touchstone, not by having no Touchstones. Also, there is prescedent for this “you are no longer able to maintain Touchstones” effect, in the form of the Pledge to the Worthless One Ritual.

          Thanks for that clarification! Given the fact that Belial's Brood shuns humanity, I thought it would make sense for them to not maintain their Touchstones. So I think it would make sense for a high-ranking Brood member to not have any Touchstones at all. Good to know that this is indeed possible without always suffering from the Languid condition.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
            Become one with the Beast ([/FONT][/COLOR]•••)
            Prerequisite: Mystery Cult initiation - Belial's Brood
            As a member of the Brood, you learned how to harness the Beast inside you and become one with it. When you drop to 'Humanity' 0, you do not become a draugr and do not lose control over yourself. Although you still become a slave to your Beast's desires, you are able to steer those desires as if you are 'Riding the Wave'. When at 'Humanity' 0, you are technically always in frenzy, but also always 'Riding the Wave'. As well; you are allowed to regain 'Humanity' by spending experience, even when you are at 'Humanity' 0.
            Drawback: Becoming one with the Beast means you have trouble staying in touch with your humanity. While you have this merit, buying back 'Humanity' with experience always costs 3 experience per dot. As well; when you are at 'Humanity' 0, Kindred outside of the Brood will not recognize the difference between a draugr and you; and willt treat you as any ordinary draugr.
            Interesting and useful. Perhaps too useful, in the sense that if it's "easy" to do then everyone would want to join the cult and take the merit, no? Probably would require purchase of the merit only while sacrificing the last point of Humanity--falling off the edge and discovering you can fly by missing the ground, in other words.

            Not something your average vamp would tolerate even attempting for themselves, however.

            I have an NPC (a force of nature/plot NPC, frankly) who I'm theorizing managed to merge with a Strix in a fashion that subsumed it and thereby enabled both gaining control over his beast and avoiding the negative effects of Humanity 0. Fortunately the NPC in question is nominally a protagonist in comparison to the antagonist, and the strix I'm theorizing here was focused around the "sloth" vice.

            It's good not to have to pin down exactly why things are the way they are, sometimes.

            --Khanwulf

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

              Interesting and useful. Perhaps too useful, in the sense that if it's "easy" to do then everyone would want to join the cult and take the merit, no? Probably would require purchase of the merit only while sacrificing the last point of Humanity--falling off the edge and discovering you can fly by missing the ground, in other words.

              Not something your average vamp would tolerate even attempting for themselves, however.

              I have an NPC (a force of nature/plot NPC, frankly) who I'm theorizing managed to merge with a Strix in a fashion that subsumed it and thereby enabled both gaining control over his beast and avoiding the negative effects of Humanity 0. Fortunately the NPC in question is nominally a protagonist in comparison to the antagonist, and the strix I'm theorizing here was focused around the "sloth" vice.

              It's good not to have to pin down exactly why things are the way they are, sometimes.

              --Khanwulf


              You are absolutely right. Of course one could say that the Brood doesn't just let anyone in on their secrets, nor do they allow anyone to leave the Brood. But you're right. I'll add your idea to the merit.


              Become one with the Beast (•••)
              Prerequisites: Mystery Cult initiation - Belial's Brood , 'Humanity' 0 (you must be able to purchase this merit at the moment your 'Humanity' drops to 0).
              As a member of the Brood, you learned how to harness the Beast inside you and become one with it. When you drop to 'Humanity' 0, you do not become a draugr and do not lose control over yourself. Although you still become a slave to your Beast's desires, you are able to steer those desires as if you are 'Riding the Wave'. When at 'Humanity' 0, you are technically always in frenzy, but also always 'Riding the Wave'. As well; you are allowed to regain 'Humanity' by spending experience, even when you are at 'Humanity' 0.
              Drawback: Becoming one with the Beast means you have trouble staying in touch with your humanity. While you have this merit, buying back 'Humanity' with experience always costs 3 experience per dot. As well; when you are at 'Humanity' 0, Kindred outside of the Brood will not recognize the difference between a draugr and you; and willt treat you as any ordinary draugr.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

                The Languid Condition is brought on by losing your last Touchstone, not by having no Touchstones. Also, there is prescedent for this “you are no longer able to maintain Touchstones” effect, in the form of the Pledge to the Worthless One Ritual.
                Potatoes, tomatoes.

                Unless the vampire has already lost their last Touchstone, the ambiguity remains.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Howalt View Post
                  Potatoes, tomatoes.

                  Unless the vampire has already lost their last Touchstone, the ambiguity remains.
                  It’s really not ambiguous. At the time that you lose your last Touchstone, you must find another one within a month or gain the Languid Condition. Falling into Torpor resolves the Languid Condition. When you wake from Torpor, you have no Touchstones, but do not regain the Languid Condition again because you have not lost a Touchstone.


                  Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                  My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                  Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                  • #39
                    I’ll refer you tovearlier in the thread, where there already was confusion about the pledge.

                    Anyway, the reformulation has fixed the issue
                    Last edited by Howalt; 04-12-2018, 11:49 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post

                      You are absolutely right. Of course one could say that the Brood doesn't just let anyone in on their secrets, nor do they allow anyone to leave the Brood. But you're right. I'll add your idea to the merit.
                      Excellent, looks highly usable and ... something that senior folks in the Covenants would be terrified that the general populace knew about. Were there an easy way to dispense with the need to maintain Humanity it would tear down many premises of their society and move the needle much closer to the day when the world is ruled by draugr (kinda) and humans huddle in fear if not pens.

                      Well. That's what the Strix dream of, anyway. If they dream. (Do Strix Dream Of Shadowed Sheep?)

                      Stuff like this can become the sort of secret that once your character knows it, never lets them rest again from the raw paranoia.

                      --Khanwulf

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                      • #41
                        one could argue their redundant with the strix?


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                        • #42
                          One could argue they're not. Just because they have overlap in evoking paranoia doesn't mean they're redundant. Vampires infiltrating vampire Covenants in the name of a demon evokes a very different feeling than near impervious, non-human entities that possess people because they like to spread chaos.


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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                            One could argue they're not. Just because they have overlap in evoking paranoia doesn't mean they're redundant. Vampires infiltrating vampire Covenants in the name of a demon evokes a very different feeling than near impervious, non-human entities that possess people because they like to spread chaos.
                            I'm with Tessie. The Strix are a particular type of antagonist and not necessarily suited to every chronicle. They're supposed to be at least somewhat unknowable, and stand in for Horrors in VtR versus core CofD.

                            Masquerade had the two mega-factions as antagonists, which VtR lacks and instead hews to a more personal, local flavor. The Brood are an Other within all that. The lurking terror of selling yourself to power, versus the Strix's manipulation and/or outright possession. Brood are there because they belong and have become; Strix-possessed corpses are there because they are invading aliens.

                            It's a very different flavor for your paranoia--not that'd I'd recommend limiting your options... go rainbow sherbet on your PC with this stuff.

                            --Khanwulf
                            Last edited by Khanwulf; 04-16-2018, 12:35 PM.

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