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Coil of the Ascendant, hows it seen by outsiders?

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  • Coil of the Ascendant, hows it seen by outsiders?

    Was thinking a bit on the surface it would seem it give's the Amanotsukai (From the Circle of the Crone Covenant book) or Bak Ra (From Ancient bloodlines) Exactly what they want

    but the coil's fluff is in DEFIANCE of the sun, not in making oneself acceptable to it.

    Would it be unreasonable for them to see the coil as blasphemous? fore more direct reasons then the sanctum does I mean



  • #2
    I think they might see the methods required to attain it as heretical and blasphemous; I doubt one could mask the attainment of a coil in a religious ceremony in which the sun 'blesses' you with resistance. They'd see, instead, as the fluff says, defiance, a man laughing in the face of Ra or Amaterasu, and saying "I have tricked you, I have defeated you, I am better than you." Remembering also that the Ordo Dracul that teaches the coil has a large Nietzchian hard-on for Vampire vs God rants, I doubt the Ordo Dracul would do much to dispel that notion.

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    • #3
      so it wouldnt be something they made any effort to steal.


      Just the old Coterie's book mentioned the Circle trying to steal magics from the Order and sanctum.

      Maybe the coil of Ziva (Ironicly) would be more palatable to them.


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      • #4
        From my understanding, it is pretty much impossible to 'steal' a Coil. You can't even diablerize Coils out of someone.
        You could have someone attain the Coil as usual as a Defiant, who'd later leave to join the Sanctum. While this brings... some troubles in and of itself (some Sworn of the Axe might like to have words with you...), I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to 'stack' those: After all, someone who mocked the sun once might well long for its acceptance later.
        However, in that case, I'd penalize rolls or even the effects of any sun resistance gained from religious ceremony, with a theme of "past sins catching up with you".
        Which would probably be quite topical for a Kindred that a) joined the Ordo b) left the Ordo and c) joined the Sanctum. That is some extreme change of mind there.

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        • #5
          Worth noting is that basically no outsiders would even learn about the Coil of Ascendant. The only noticable parts would be that some Ordo members are more prone to using Blush of Health, won't be seen Frenzying because of fire, and might be seen by ghouls or other minions during daytime, but there's no real insight into the philosophy behind the Coil.


          Bloodline: The Stygians
          Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
          Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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          • #6
            the book Coterie's page 79 has a section on "Infiltrator" Coteries.


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            • #7
              All of the mysteries and coils are deliberately a mockery of religious and spiritual concepts. Dracula covenant hopped trying to find magic to kill God and when he couldn't find it, he defiled the rituals to create coils. Whether or not a specific religious or spiritual faction takes it personally is going to depend on their individual beliefs and how that mystery or scale perverts it.

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              • #8
                oh just thought to ask?

                Ideas on storytelling with Coil of the Ascendant or Ziva?

                if someone makes an enemy with 5 dots in either ideas how to make things a battle not a "Your home burns down during the day?"

                want ideas to show how this make this a marked advantage, but not an overpowering one.

                one is that if your safe from a ghoul, you should be safe from a Vampire who can endure the sun"

                anything else?


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                  oh just thought to ask?

                  Ideas on storytelling with Coil of the Ascendant or Ziva?

                  if someone makes an enemy with 5 dots in either ideas how to make things a battle not a "Your home burns down during the day?"

                  want ideas to show how this make this a marked advantage, but not an overpowering one.

                  one is that if your safe from a ghoul, you should be safe from a Vampire who can endure the sun"

                  anything else?
                  Firstly avoiding letting others knowing where your Haven is is just good practice. Secondly Ascendant is day walking at 3 dots at BP1 (assuming a cloudy day or full covering heavy clothes) so not pissing off dragons is probably also good practice (this is probably the case every clan and covenant, just don't pick fights and nobody gets hurt) and hope they're willing to do the same.
                  For Živa any dots makes the vampire an unknown as they could have any supernatural merit and Omen Sensitivity, Numbing Touch and Clean-Sighted all create very different experiences when interacting with the character if you don't know what they can do.

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                  • #10
                    ACK I meant the other one that makes you mortal agaiin for a few hours.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                      ACK I meant the other one that makes you mortal agaiin for a few hours.
                      It was actualy Live Bait that mixed them up. It is Ziva which lets you become a human again, but that's only the last dot. Many (probably most) Ziva Dragons won't learn that one, especially considering that it's a completely new effect that doesn't build upon any previous dots.


                      Bloodline: The Stygians
                      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                      • #12
                        kay but see why I mentioned it?

                        alongside ascendant as something that could allow someone to operate in daylight

                        Oh my theory voiced earlier, that Ziva might be less problematic in the eyes of the Bak-ra or Amanotsukai then the coil of the Ascendant? agree?


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                        • #13
                          My bad. Turning fully human with no disciplines is less useful than dispatching a ghoul to do the deed so I wouldn't worry too much about that happening.
                          On topic the Coils are ment to defy the Curse not necessary the sun itself so it might be seen like defying temptation is in christianty rather than as a bad thing.
                          Last edited by Live Bait; 06-12-2018, 05:12 PM.

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                          • #14
                            its only useful if you want to have a day at an amusement park or such.

                            Why I felt it should have been a scale not part of the coil.


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                            • #15
                              It's very useful if you have just been arrested by the police and dawn is coming.

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