How to fight Carthian Law?

[Iceblade44]

Blood hunts, lots of Blood hunts. As Posseur said this type of attack is one against the entire regime that the Prince have built up. He is very much has a justified reason of taking the entire Covenant and staking them to wait for the sun. For other vampires this brings the normal benefits of a Blood Hunt, that is appeal to the Prince by killing those that attacked his right to rule.

Edit: ah misread your question. If your not the Prince then that depends on exactly why they used Carthian Law on you. If your influential in the city and was a problem for the Movement sure he can go to the Prince for a complaint, whether the Prince would listen to you depends on how close you are to them. Most likely then not the offended vampire would still retaliate, tho he has to do so through his own means and influences.

If the vampire was given the Mandate because nobody liked him and he's a jerk, you would probably find the Prince agreeing with the Carthians.

[Prince of the Night]

What can the offended party, (Prince or not) Do if it doesnt work?


If your the prince execute them grandly.

if your not...

Deliver the offender staked to the prince in front of elysium

explain what happened.

[Iceblade44]

I think it's safe to say that Carthians know that using Carthian law too blatantly as a weapon... can get them in trouble with the prince, if the prince isnt a carthian?

They would if they are convinced it will allow them to topple the regime. Viva la revolution.

Of course only if they are assured it works or if there to arrogant to think it would without backup

[Poseur]

I think it's safe to say that Carthians know that using Carthian law too blatantly as a weapon... can get them in trouble with the prince, if the prince isnt a carthian?

I'd say that if the Carthians make an attack against the Prince of the City, and don't topple her regime at that moment, they are probably enemies of the State at that point. Their leadership and most involved in the vote for such an action would be subject to a Blood Hunt, at the very least. Trying to strip the Prince powers by Mandate of the Masses is a blatant attack on the regime and such an action requires response in kind.

[Prince of the Night]

I think it's safe to say that Carthians know that using Carthian law too blatantly as a weapon... can get them in trouble with the prince, if the prince isnt a carthian?

[Maitrecorbo]

As for the Invictus, violence is not even necessary.
As a member of the invictus you do a political favor to one of the bigger carthian factions. Then arrange for things to seem like you are getting an advantage from that faction.
Now you only have to watch as the carthians dissolve into in-fightings and claims of ''selling out''.

The invictus probably has entire playbooks of these kinds of scenario that they use when they are bored.

[Poseur]

if the blasphemous Carthian has outlawed Cruac what can the Crone do?

Gather the Choir, make them invest in Altar and if you're lucky have a Elder Crone with Mother-Goddess Altar and make a big fancy long ritual with a lot of sacrifice that murders the shit out of the Carthian leadership (including the dude that enacted the law). Well this is a pretty white room scenario. Cruac pretty much can do a lot of things.

More civilized, get sway over the carthians. Maybe introduce a threat (or just rumors of one) to the city that only the Crones and their blood magic could deal with.
Join the carthian ranks and try to get Plausible Deniability and keep using Cruac. If the Carthians have a Judiciary, talk her over to allow Cruac for some/all to be used.
Have the Cronies withdraw from the city and stake out their own domain within the city by electing someone of their own as God-Prince over the new domain, and no more carthian law. However they are probably now in all out war, revolting against their neighboor domain now.
Depending on how, and enforced by what merit and NPCs' the Crones might just ignore the law and/or suffer the consequence.
Or just use Cruac in their Havens, probably no government is tyrannical enough to enforce the law to the letter inside someones Haven. You're usually Prince over your Haven, unless breaking the Traditions.

[Prince of the Night]

not sure if some need adapted

oh!

if an elders stripped down to revenent by Mandate from the masses, can he learn Chary?

Though I think many elders stripped down with Mandate, will try to take out a contract on the Carthians involved.

and in many cases, that may work.

[ArcaneArts]

Do threnodies still exist in 2nd edition?

Sure, nothing indicates otherwise.

[Prince of the Night]

Do threnodies still exist in 2nd edition?

[ArcaneArts]

if the blasphemous Carthian has outlawed Cruac what can the Crone do?

More than one way to call down the Bitch-Mother. Time to get creative. Threnodies at a minimum, as well as alternate means of sorcery, and rapid outsourcing.

[Prince of the Night]

if the blasphemous Carthian has outlawed Cruac what can the Crone do?

[ArcaneArts]

Thing is what can an invictus Tyrant, or a Crone do?

since working on approval is almost anathema to them.

just bite it?

A Crone can fight back with Cruac curses and god-invocations, maybe even strike a bargain with a spirit and run around Claimed for a while.

An Invictus might be able to wrangle Oaths from nearly powerful constituents that lets him temporarily play someone else's metaphysical force, but no promises that the Law won't just register them as the offender still.

[Iceblade44]

An Invictus would try out buying the majority and reinforcing that with Oaths.

Not much a Law can do if you can't ever pass it. Of course to get to that point the Invictus has to be really savvy and discrete so no one can figure out what he's doing.

[Prince of the Night]

Thing is what can an invictus Tyrant, or a Crone do?

since working on approval is almost anathema to them.

just bite it?