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Obfuscate 5 Oubliette

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  • #16
    Well, Touch of Shadow can optionally be used to Obfuscate larger objects. There is the table that suggests a negative die penalty equal to the size you want to increase (though it only goes up to three on the table).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Ever Professional View Post
      Well, Touch of Shadow can optionally be used to Obfuscate larger objects. There is the table that suggests a negative die penalty equal to the size you want to increase (though it only goes up to three on the table).

      I swear this is table is the only reason cars got smaller in 2ed, so you can obfuscate cars.
      Ergo, compact cars got size 8 in 2ed. This is the reason, no matter what anyone says, so you can use obfuscate on them

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      • #18
        where do compact car's get listed as size 8?

        think i'd probaly prefer a motorcycle personally.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
          where do compact car's get listed as size 8?

          think i'd probaly prefer a motorcycle personally.
          Motorcycles are listed as size 7, and both are listed (along with other objects) in the mortals core book.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Pale_Crusader View Post

            You're exactly correct. Also seems like people don't know what an https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798&q=Dictionary#dobs= oubliette"]oubliette is, a secret pit to cage someone in order to forget about them[/URL]. With the way Obfuscate works unless they can defeat it in a Clash of Wills it is completely possible to hide all exits from someone for the full duration, especially given the text of the power say that in prose as dreadful and flowery as deadly Nighshade in bloom. ("can turn an alleyway into a maze that nobody can escape from") I mean the vampire is turning your own mind and senses against you, the only reason your hand can lead you anywhere reliably is if you can trust you sense of touch and own mind, and Obfuscate makes your senses and mind betray you.
            I'd like to interpret the alley turned maze part litterally, but I think it's just an evocative and exagerated description. What the power actually does, according to the mechanics described, is using every previous obfuscate effects on everyone /everything, at any distance and at once. If, with this kind of modifications (obfuscate 2 and 4 mostly), you are able to turn a straight and empty alley in a maze gg
            Last edited by Marcus; 06-02-2018, 03:48 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Marcus View Post

              I'd like to interpret the alley turned maze part litterally, but I think it's just an evocative and exagerated description. What the power actually does, according to the mechanics described, is using every previous obfuscate effects on everyone /everything, at any distance and at once. If, with this kind of modifications (obfuscate 2 and 4 mostly), you are able to turn a straight and empty alley in a maze gg
              I agree it is very frightening to think of something that mind bending but since "Hide all Exits" is valid with the entire locatity equivalent of Obfuscate 2 and since he "can specify a particular image that she wants to project, either a subjective category or a specific..." but in terms of the entire locality instead of his mere person, and to break through the effect without a Clash of Wills the "If an observer is forced to deal with something affected by Touch of Shadow — being thrown into an occulted table or door, or bitten by an occulted dog — that observer can then recognize the subject’s existence." which are outside forces upon the being in the maze that they precieve, so no just just reaching out your own hand, your hand would lie to you as surely about the open end of Alley as it had you tracing a winding path that never leads out though what the Mehket who won the Clash of Wills sees as open air as he watches from the roof top, or the mouth of the Alley everyone on else sees as a wall. Your best chance is being able to win a Clash of Wills, or having someone who can if you can't come save you.

              That friendly Mehket would have to shove you though a "wall", but on your own without a Clash of Wills except for the Sunlight come dawn you may as well be in a sealed maze.

              "Someone interacting with elements of an Oubliette can see their true natures, but only for a few seconds." isn't about seeing things hidden but is glimpsing though about disguises, which is atmospheric and creepy, so follows the thematic elements of a gothic horror. Escaping something named after a pit to throw people in to forget about them, is an interpretation not fitting the theme and fitting the wording only in an obtuse technical reading when the book is written in natural language with clear intent.
              Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 06-02-2018, 05:20 AM.


              “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
              "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                where do compact car's get listed as size 8?

                think i'd probaly prefer a motorcycle personally.

                The size table in CofD Corebook.

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                • #23
                  I grabbed these quotes from the book (VtR 2E, pp.137-139):

                  Touch of Shadow
                  "For the rest of the scene, people’s eyes slide off the object. The vampire can affect an inanimate object or animal with the same effects as Face in the Crowd — people subconsciously register that the subject is present, but they’re not actively aware of it. If an observer is forced to deal with something affected by Touch of Shadow — being thrown into an occulted table or door, or bitten by an occulted dog — that observer can then recognize the subject’s existence."

                  "In order to notice the occluded object, observers must succeed at a reflexive Wits + Composure penalized by the vampire’s Obfuscate dots."

                  Cloak of Night
                  "If another vampire manages to perceive him, through Auspex, attack, or any other means, she can sense his predatory aura and lash out. If she wins the predatory aura contest, Cloak of Night shatters, as does any other use of Obfuscate the vampire made."

                  "The vampire can be tracked by indirect clues, as mentioned above. Tracking is an extended action, with the observer rolling Wits + Resolve - Obfuscate. A vampire observer can apply the Blood Potency bonus from Kindred senses. Each roll takes one turn, and the observer must roll more successes than the vampire’s Wits + Stealth + Obfuscate. Teamwork may be applied."

                  The Familiar Stranger
                  "A vampire can also use The Familiar Stranger on objects through Touch of Shadow. He can redefine how people see the object. The illusory object must be roughly the same size as the original object, and will pass most forms of mundane inspection — though an illusory gun won’t fire, and an illusory knife won’t cut. Simply discovering that the illusion won’t function isn’t enough to break it, however — that only happens at the end of the scene."

                  Oubliette
                  "Once he has established an Oubliette, the vampire can use Touch of Shadow, Cloak of Night, and The Familiar Stranger at any distance, on anyone or anything within his haven."

                  "Someone interacting with elements of an Oubliette can see their true natures, but only for a few seconds. Since the Oubliette can cover a large area, and can change in the blink of an eye, most people shrug off minor changes as just a trick of the light."


                  MY INTERPRETATION

                  Basically, from my reading, you can't simply lash out against an Oubliette -- even if you know it's bullshit. You have to find the vampire responsible, actually manage to perceive them as they are, "through Auspex, attack, or any other means," and then sensing their predatory aura, you can finally lash out. If you win that predatory aura contest, that vampire's Oubliette and any other uses of Obfuscate 'shatter'.

                  Interestingly, I found this example of game-play in the book (VtR 2E, p.126):

                  Example: Two Mekhet, Piotr and Alan, have come into conflict. Alan is attempting to use The Spirit’s Touch (Auspex 3) to snoop around Piotr’s den. However, the den is disguised by Oubliette (Obfuscate 5), thus the two characters enter a Clash of Wills.

                  Alan has four dots of Auspex and two dots of Blood Potency, so Alan’s player will roll six dice. Piotr has five dots of Obfuscate and three dots of Blood Potency, eight dice. Oubliette is a long-lasting power with a three-week duration, so Piotr’s player adds two dice, bringing the roll up to ten dice total. Neither character can spend Willpower on the roll because Alan isn’t certain anything supernatural is going on and Piotr isn’t present.

                  Both players roll; Piotr’s player gets two successes, while Alan’s rolls an impressive four. Therefore, The Spirit’s Touch has won out and Alan becomes aware of the building’s true nature. To all other characters the location remains occluded.
                  As the above example shows, Auspex is probably the best when it comes to handling Oubliette. You won't be able to 'shatter' things without personally lashing out against the vampire responsible, but at the very least you're able to free yourself from the illusion with a Clash of Wills, too.

                  Notably, it explicitly states that The Familiar Stranger 'passes most forms of mundane inspection'. With that in mind, I wouldn't think sliding your hand against an illusory wall as good enough to break the illusion. If you want to break out, you have to break the lock or rob the key from the jailer (go looking for the vampire responsible, or use Auspex and win in a Clash of Wills).
                  Last edited by Jack; 06-06-2018, 05:04 PM.

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                  • #24
                    IMO obfuscate is a mind affecting discipline that affects the brain nerves and not just the senses. Thats why if you see an illusion that is successful, (a wall that shouldnt be there, a floor that moves forward or something) u believe it and u act acordingly regardles if its logical or not. A schizophrenic person knows that he is ill, he knows that he has to take hiss pills, but if he doesnt he will see the imaginary things and that moment he will be sure that they are real. So oubliette is not only capable of hallucinate you but you have to react acording the illusions that you encounter.

                    The question is : when u try to shatter obfuscate 3 via lash out, the target is visible just for you or for all the others that are present?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by hellcaster View Post
                      The question is : when u try to shatter obfuscate 3 via lash out, the target is visible just for you or for all the others that are present?
                      Probably the latter, considering that lashing out requires you to be able to perceive the vampire in the first place and the vanishing act builds upon Face in the Crowd, which allows a struck character to automatically perceive the vampire.


                      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                      Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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