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Flock vs Herd

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  • Flock vs Herd

    If you are in the LS is there any benefit to taking Herd over Flock? Or would you always do Flock? (Flock is a merit from SotC).

  • #2
    You need Herd before you can get Flock. So it's not a choice really. You need to have Herd already at a higher level than Flock if you want to invest in Flock.

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    • #3
      Yes, so if Herd is higher or equal to - then get Flock to an equal level before investing in Herd again? So basically Flock counts as additional Herd, but more too. And that WP gain is for the Flock NPC's, not me? What would my unnamed Flock NPC do with WP?

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      • #4
        The way I understand it, it doesn't really make a real difference. The moment you get 1 dot in Flock, the whole Merit seems to apply to all your Flock and Herd dots. So basically having 5 dots in Herd and 1 dot in Flock is functionally no different from having 3 dots in Herd and 3 dots in Flock.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mikerand View Post
          Yes, so if Herd is higher or equal to - then get Flock to an equal level before investing in Herd again? So basically Flock counts as additional Herd,
          Yes, with the additional benefit that it can break the 5 dot limit. So if you have 5 Herd and 5 Flock it counts as you having 10 Herd. So you'll have access to 20 Vitae per week, with no need to hunt.

          Originally posted by mikerand View Post
          but more too. And that WP gain is for the Flock NPC's, not me? What would my unnamed Flock NPC do with WP?
          For both, any NPC (not necessarily unamed) that belongs to your Flock, starts a scene with one Willpower, that they will use in pursuit of their faith. What this entails depends wholly on what that is and if it ever comes up in a story.

          And anytime you feed on one of those 10 Vitae afforded to you by your Flock, you gain a point of Willpower. That is potentially 10 WP per week, as long as you're willing to have that many feeding interactions (one WP per Flock feeding, not per Flock Vitae).

          ​So in general, it gives you a way to have access to an ample blood supply and a steady flow of WP. Both very good advantages to have.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post

            Yes, with the additional benefit that it can break the 5 dot limit. So if you have 5 Herd and 5 Flock it counts as you having 10 Herd. So you'll have access to 20 Vitae per week, with no need to hunt.



            For both, any NPC (not necessarily unamed) that belongs to your Flock, starts a scene with one Willpower, that they will use in pursuit of their faith. What this entails depends wholly on what that is and if it ever comes up in a story.

            And anytime you feed on one of those 10 Vitae afforded to you by your Flock, you gain a point of Willpower. That is potentially 10 WP per week, as long as you're willing to have that many feeding interactions (one WP per Flock feeding, not per Flock Vitae).

            ​So in general, it gives you a way to have access to an ample blood supply and a steady flow of WP. Both very good advantages to have.
            Well I am sold, totally getting Flock when I get some XP.

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            • #7
              If I remember correctly Flock adds to Herd, but Herd doesn't add to Flock. WP was only gained when feeding from the Flock, so I don't think you get WP from feeding on the Herd dots. Otherwise you get the main benefit from Flock on the first dot, with the second to fifth dots only granting additional Herd.


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                If I remember correctly Flock adds to Herd, but Herd doesn't add to Flock. WP was only gained when feeding from the Flock, so I don't think you get WP from feeding on the Herd dots. Otherwise you get the main benefit from Flock on the first dot, with the second to fifth dots only granting additional Herd.
                That is correct, that is why my post is worded to reflect that, and I said "And anytime you feed on one of those 10 Vitae afforded to you by your Flock, you gain a point of Willpower." because on the example I gave the character has Flock 5.

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                • #9
                  What I didn't remember correctly was the number of Vitae granted per dot of Herd.


                  Bloodline: The Stygians
                  Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                  Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                    WP was only gained when feeding from the Flock, so I don't think you get WP from feeding on the Herd dots.
                    The description of Flock seems to indicate that there isn't much of an actual distinction between the characters representing the Flock dots and the characters representing the Herd dots, since the Flock is a modifier on the Herd.


                    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                    • #11
                      As writen Flock seems to make Herd a bad buy, even allowing one covenant 10 Herd is something I don't think is a good idea. As such I be hesitant to allow it if I was running a game and warn a ST that I will exploit the hell out of it if running a sanctified character in a game where it was allowed.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
                        As writen Flock seems to make Herd a bad buy, even allowing one covenant 10 Herd is something I don't think is a good idea.
                        What's your logic here?


                        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                        • #13
                          Flock is Herd plus free Willpower so it's always a better buy to get Flock if you can than get Herd.
                          Also letting one covenant have double the maximum number of dots in Herd any other can have seems like a bad idea however I've just reread Secret Society Junkie and it doesn't have a limit on the maximum level of Herd available so that post suffered from my books being at a players house.

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                          • #14
                            Um don't you need herd to buy flock? If I remember right isn't the amount of flock dots you can get is capped by your herd dots? It's not as if it's a choice between Flock or Herd, Flock is more of an upgrade for Herd
                            Last edited by Iceblade44; 06-10-2018, 07:37 PM.


                            .

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                            • #15
                              Yes. You need Herd to buy Flock, and each dot of Flock counts as an extra dot of Herd. 'Prerequisite: Herd (equal or greater level)'

                              It's also worth noting that you can only get however much Vitae from your Herd once per week, up to twice the Merit's dot rating in Vitae. If you have 5 Herd, that's 10 Vitae. If you have 5 Flock, it's 20 Vitae (because you also have to have 5 Herd).
                              Last edited by nofather; 06-12-2018, 12:49 AM. Reason: Was wrong, fixed.

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