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So what are your explanations for Oaths and Laws?

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  • So what are your explanations for Oaths and Laws?

    Just a little idea I think would be fun. In the books it's pretty unknown what are Invictus Oaths and Carthian Laws, where they came from, and why they are linked to these Covenants. They are similar powers to eachother, that they literally requires one to indentify as part of their respective covenants by other members (Basically have status) and both fundamentally are based on agreement of some kind and the manipulation of that concept. Other then that tho they are so different to anything else vampires have access to, whether it's Diciplines or Blood Sorcery. So basically what my question is, that if you have one, what possible explanations and origins do you in your games ascribe to these unique supernatural powers the secular covenant seem to have a hand in?


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  • #2
    I have them be an advanced expression of blood sympathy, more so in the case of carthian law.


    Currently running: VtR - The most serene requiem of Venice
    Currently playing: Being a dad for a 1year old daughter and a newborn son.
    Currently planning: Scion 2nd edition

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    • #3
      Huh that totally slipped my mind. Yeah that would make sense, tho it is abit more metaphysical since while you could argue that there is a physical connection between members of clan. With Covenants it's more cognitive with only needing status. But I can definitely see that working


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      • #4
        Are you looking for an off-game explanation or an in game one?

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        • #5
          Given that Strix are able to make members of any clan there isn't as much of a physical connection as you might expect.

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          • #6
            I think the strix are smoke or vapor, not spirit.

            it safe to say some members of the ordo dracul have tried researching this question?


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
              it safe to say some members of the ordo dracul have tried researching this question?
              They would have, though it's a fair bet the Invictus and Carthians would resist it for fear of the powers being duplicated. In my interpretation of Requiem for Rome, the Invictus had its genesis in the Legio Mortuum, the military wing of the Roman Camarilla* - the structure of Oaths partakes both of military loyalty/unit cohesion, and oaths of initiation (paralleling the popularity of Mithraism in the Roman army). So I'd posit a very specialised kind of blood magic used by the Legio to enforce discipline and duty, repurposed by the Invictus later on. But basically that: blood magic; whatever explains it is the same as whatever explains how vampires are capable of Theban Sorcery.

              Carthian Law... I've got nothing. (I don't use it, so I haven't given it much thought)

              * I am aware the Senex had a faction called the Invictus, but they were hard core inner-circle Julii, which makes it more likely they were wiped out - the later Invictus would at most be named after them.

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              • #8
                What Power you think the Senex would have?

                Oh none the less

                I think Ordo Dracul would be more eager to duplicate Night Doctor Surgery, then any Carthian law.

                I think they'd hire them occasionaly to help in s ome of their research.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Poseur View Post
                  Are you looking for an off-game explanation or an in game one?
                  In game. What do you characters think of it? Though off-game would also be interesting if you have came up with a reason for it.
                  Last edited by Iceblade44; 06-12-2018, 11:18 AM.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
                    Given that Strix are able to make members of any clan there isn't as much of a physical connection as you might expect.
                    Really? I dont remember reading they had such a Dread Power. Is it in a supplement?
                    Last edited by Iceblade44; 06-12-2018, 11:07 AM.


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                    • #11
                      The senex most likely had something like Carthian Law, I mean if it had a source it be with them. Debates was a big thing for the Senex and it was their responsibility to pass laws
                      Last edited by Iceblade44; 06-12-2018, 11:03 AM.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Iceblade44 View Post

                        Really? I dont remember reading theu had such a Dread Power. Is it in a supplement?


                        Not a dread power it in the Synthesis power on page 206 Shadow Potency 6

                        it could be a vampire of any clan.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post



                          Not a dread power it in the Synthesis power on page 206 Shadow Potency 6

                          it could be a vampire of any clan.
                          That's not them creating vampires tho, but becoming vampires. And they have no choice in it, it's random chance if the vessal has no connection to no Kindred but if there is they will become a member of the clan that created the Revenant or the one they drank Vitae from. Anyway yes the clan lines are quite loose, but then again in Reqiem Clans themselves are quite loose aren't they.


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                          • #14
                            would them controlling clan be a cool dread power?


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                              I think Ordo Dracul would be more eager to duplicate Night Doctor Surgery, then any Carthian law.

                              I think they'd hire them occasionaly to help in s ome of their research.
                              Since you can be part of more than one covenant (total status can't exceed 5) i'd argue that the Night Doctors were formed out of kindred who are part of both. You'd see them more often in carthians because carthians are more likely to share and since Night Doctor surgery isnt a coil or scale the Ordo has no say on it being taught to others.
                              But still several of them dabble in both covenant i think.

                              Keep in mind. Thats what i go with, not necessarily whats written tho.


                              Currently running: VtR - The most serene requiem of Venice
                              Currently playing: Being a dad for a 1year old daughter and a newborn son.
                              Currently planning: Scion 2nd edition

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