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So what are your explanations for Oaths and Laws?

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  • Iceblade44
    started a topic So what are your explanations for Oaths and Laws?

    So what are your explanations for Oaths and Laws?

    Just a little idea I think would be fun. In the books it's pretty unknown what are Invictus Oaths and Carthian Laws, where they came from, and why they are linked to these Covenants. They are similar powers to eachother, that they literally requires one to indentify as part of their respective covenants by other members (Basically have status) and both fundamentally are based on agreement of some kind and the manipulation of that concept. Other then that tho they are so different to anything else vampires have access to, whether it's Diciplines or Blood Sorcery. So basically what my question is, that if you have one, what possible explanations and origins do you in your games ascribe to these unique supernatural powers the secular covenant seem to have a hand in?

  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by Kleptomania View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, Carthian Law was first practiced by the Senex, who called it the 'Corpus Juris'. I'm unsure yet, but I like the idea that it's essentially a mystical force or 'entity' in its own right, that fed on the blood sacrifices made before each Senex meeting in the Camarilla chamber.
    Essentially, the Carthian Movement of Rome (which I like to think is modelled after the Senex) rediscovered this force and somehow expanded its scope to cover the entire global movement. I like to think that the blood sacrifices continue, much more frequently than in the nights of the Camarilla, carried out by all those high ranking Carthians in the know.
    Sounds Kind of cool!!!!

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  • Kleptomania
    replied
    As far as I'm concerned, Carthian Law was first practiced by the Senex, who called it the 'Corpus Juris'. I'm unsure yet, but I like the idea that it's essentially a mystical force or 'entity' in its own right, that fed on the blood sacrifices made before each Senex meeting in the Camarilla chamber.
    Essentially, the Carthian Movement of Rome (which I like to think is modelled after the Senex) rediscovered this force and somehow expanded its scope to cover the entire global movement. I like to think that the blood sacrifices continue, much more frequently than in the nights of the Camarilla, carried out by all those high ranking Carthians in the know.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post

    Interesting.
    I've always had Cruac, Theban, Carthian Law and Invictus Oath be manipulation of the blood sympathy (as i mentionned above)
    But disciplines are specialized expression of predatory aura.

    Then again, it occurs to me that blood sympathy would be related in some way to the predatory aura.
    The way I think about it, the embrace divides the sire's Beast, in much the same way that the Stirges divide to manage Shadow Potency. Blood Sympathy, then, could better be thought of as Beast Sympathy. The more closely related one vampire's Beast is to another, the stronger the sympathy.

    So, in my view, both are correct. The various forms of blood sorcery (and lets face it, Oaths and Law are a form of blood sorcery) are expressions of blood sympathy, and blood sympathy is an expression of the predatory aura, so blood sorcery is an indirect expression of the predatory aura.

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  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by Sconce View Post
    You could also think of Carthian Law and Invictus Oaths as actually being the result of "forcing" the Predatory Aura "into" Blood Sympathy to amplify and refine the effects, in the same way you could think of Auspex as kind of "mixing" the Predatory Aura with Kindred Senses, or of Obfuscate being a way of "inverting" the Aura and bending it around the vampire's "instinctively avoiding cameras/tech/mirrors/direct attention/etc." thing.
    Thought for a bit Majestys a refinement of the Seductive beast predatory Aura.

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  • Sconce
    replied
    You could also think of Carthian Law and Invictus Oaths as actually being the result of "forcing" the Predatory Aura "into" Blood Sympathy to amplify and refine the effects, in the same way you could think of Auspex as kind of "mixing" the Predatory Aura with Kindred Senses, or of Obfuscate being a way of "inverting" the Aura and bending it around the vampire's "instinctively avoiding cameras/tech/mirrors/direct attention/etc." thing.

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  • Maitrecorbo
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    Rose Bailey described most vampire powers as the predatory aura being controlled to do something. So I'd stick with that. Oaths involve those involved investing a part of their predatory aura in others, which can punish if necessary. Carthians involve their predatory aura's joining up to allow for a lot of clout.
    Interesting.
    I've always had Cruac, Theban, Carthian Law and Invictus Oath be manipulation of the blood sympathy (as i mentionned above)
    But disciplines are specialized expression of predatory aura.

    Then again, it occurs to me that blood sympathy would be related in some way to the predatory aura.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
    Since you can be part of more than one covenant (total status can't exceed 5) i'd argue that the Night Doctors were formed out of kindred who are part of both. You'd see them more often in carthians because carthians are more likely to share and since Night Doctor surgery isnt a coil or scale the Ordo has no say on it being taught to others.
    But still several of them dabble in both covenant i think.

    Keep in mind. Thats what i go with, not necessarily whats written tho.
    The fact that it's not a Scale suggests to me that it was developed by someone not initiated in the Mysteries of Ordo Dracul. If the creator was a Dragon they'd definitely base the procedure in the knowledge gained from studying the corresponding Mystery (or possibly create a new one if the Ascendant wasn't invented or known at the time). But it's definitely something the Ordo Dracul would study (just look at Flesh Graft Treatment). A crafty Carthian spy could've gotten their hands on some of the Ordo's secrets in form of research notes and used their incomplete knowledge to create Night Doctor Surgery.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Rose Bailey described most vampire powers as the predatory aura being controlled to do something. So I'd stick with that. Oaths involve those involved investing a part of their predatory aura in others, which can punish if necessary. Carthians involve their predatory aura's joining up to allow for a lot of clout.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post

    Since you can be part of more than one covenant (total status can't exceed 5) i'd argue that the Night Doctors were formed out of kindred who are part of both. You'd see them more often in carthians because carthians are more likely to share and since Night Doctor surgery isnt a coil or scale the Ordo has no say on it being taught to others.
    But still several of them dabble in both covenant i think.

    Keep in mind. Thats what i go with, not necessarily whats written tho.


    keep in mind, the Carthians have the right of return merit.

    though I'd rather be amongst the circle then the ordo dracul personally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maitrecorbo
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
    I think Ordo Dracul would be more eager to duplicate Night Doctor Surgery, then any Carthian law.

    I think they'd hire them occasionaly to help in s ome of their research.
    Since you can be part of more than one covenant (total status can't exceed 5) i'd argue that the Night Doctors were formed out of kindred who are part of both. You'd see them more often in carthians because carthians are more likely to share and since Night Doctor surgery isnt a coil or scale the Ordo has no say on it being taught to others.
    But still several of them dabble in both covenant i think.

    Keep in mind. Thats what i go with, not necessarily whats written tho.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    would them controlling clan be a cool dread power?

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  • Iceblade44
    replied
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post



    Not a dread power it in the Synthesis power on page 206 Shadow Potency 6

    it could be a vampire of any clan.
    That's not them creating vampires tho, but becoming vampires. And they have no choice in it, it's random chance if the vessal has no connection to no Kindred but if there is they will become a member of the clan that created the Revenant or the one they drank Vitae from. Anyway yes the clan lines are quite loose, but then again in Reqiem Clans themselves are quite loose aren't they.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prince of the Night
    replied
    Originally posted by Iceblade44 View Post

    Really? I dont remember reading theu had such a Dread Power. Is it in a supplement?


    Not a dread power it in the Synthesis power on page 206 Shadow Potency 6

    it could be a vampire of any clan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iceblade44
    replied
    The senex most likely had something like Carthian Law, I mean if it had a source it be with them. Debates was a big thing for the Senex and it was their responsibility to pass laws
    Last edited by Iceblade44; 06-12-2018, 11:03 AM.

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