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Kindred Vodoun for 2e?

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  • Kindred Vodoun for 2e?

    Has anyone converted Kindred Vodoun and it's rites from Bloodlines Ancients to 2e? I've found some bits and pieces from about 5+ years ago, but that's about it. I was expecting something to be in Dark Eras, but no luck there (maybe Dark Eras 2, fingers crossed).

  • #2
    not that I know of...

    though to be honest?

    Im hoping more for Merges Sorcery.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Shadowdragon View Post
      Has anyone converted Kindred Vodoun and it's rites from Bloodlines Ancients to 2e? I've found some bits and pieces from about 5+ years ago, but that's about it. I was expecting something to be in Dark Eras, but no luck there (maybe Dark Eras 2, fingers crossed).
      I did, but I also merged it with Theban Sorcery. You can find it on the Google Doc that contains my GMC updates and other setting hacks for V:tR.
      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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      • #4
        Think Merges Sorcery could be merged with Cruac?


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        • #5
          You probably could...I kept it separate though. IMO, it's probably more easily merged with Theban Sorcery.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
            Think Merges Sorcery could be merged with Cruac?
            Originally posted by Jacob View Post
            You probably could...I kept it separate though. IMO, it's probably more easily merged with Theban Sorcery.
            ​Except that way you invert the Humanity part of Mérges Sorcery. It's powered by negative emotions so it's also more thematically in line with the primal Crúac rather than the academical Theban Sorcery. Mérges Sorcery does have a WP cost when casting the rituals, but that's the easiest part to change without changing the themes of Mérges Sorcery. Not that it has to change since Secrets of the Covenants gave us the Mantle series of Crúac rites that cost a point of WP in addition to the regular Vitae cost. You could do the same thing with Mérges Sorcery.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • #7
              @Tessie: A few things. You are correct that Mérges Sorcery has a relatively different-seeming theme from Theban sorcery. However, consider that miracles are also essentially rooted in emotions (faith and ecstasy). I don't find Theban Sorcery to be very "academic" as you say since you're basically just conducting a faith-based ritual and willing a miracle to occur. So not an issue there IMO (which of course not to say that Mérges Sorcery couldn't actually be a very academic magic; its focus on emotions, especially negative emotions, actually make it a pretty good candidate for conversion into a Coil). Consider also that Mérges Sorcery originates in Sumeria which is the same continental region where Theban Sorcery hails from, providing neatly-grown mutual roots (I've always interpreted them as two branches from the same tree), whereas Crúac originates from a rather more northerly point on the globe.

              If I were to fold Mérges Sorcery with Crúac, I'd probably replace WP costs with Vitae costs (Crúac being blood magic after all) at a 1:2 ratio (since Vitae is much easier to replenish than WP) and not worry about Mantles at all (since you'd be surcharging WP at that point). YMMV

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              • #8
                The academical part of Theban Sorcery stems primarily from the fact that you roll Int+Academics for it. It's also described as a "deliberate exercise of intellect and faith". Performing Theban Sorcery is definitely (and explicitly) an act of faith and will (as represented by the WP cost), but even more an academical endeavour since those traits are the basis for the dice pool; i.e. the character's actual proficiency and the ritual's resulting potency.
                But even if we do focus on the emotional aspects of Theban Sorcery it becomes clear it's still diametrically opposed to Mérges Sorcery. Theban Sorcery is literally fuelled by calm and carefulness. Meditation grants bonus dice, and the Humanity prerequisite stems from the need of self control. Mérges Sorcery, in comparison, is fuelled by anger and hatred. The character is so consumed by it that their maximum Humanity becomes capped. Calmness (in the form of Temperance as Virtue) can literally penalise rolls for Mérges Sorcery.
                I can also note that Theban Sorcery is described in-character as channelling power that specifically does not come from the Beast (unlike almost all other vampiric powers) while Mérges Sorcery specifically incites a reaction from the Beast (just like Crúac).

                So yeah, I'd definitely rather merge it with Crúac than Theban Sorcery. As for history, the origin of Crúac is either said to be unknown or have multiple origins because it's an amalgam of several types of blood sorcery (so the singular northern origin you speak of does not exist). I find it likely that if Mérges Sorcery survived into modern nights it probably did so by being adapted and adopted into Crúac.


                Bloodline: The Stygians
                Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                • #9
                  Your complaint kind of reminds me of the kind-old-grandma-who-curses-like-a-sailor problem in literature. In real life not only do seemingly opposing situations occur, they occur with frequency. That's because the evolution of things isn't very neat and tidy. For instance, more than a decade ago I worked at the Children's desk in a public library. One day this sweet old grandma came in with her grandson. She was as pleasant as pleasant could be until the kid was out of earshot, when she leaned over the desk and confided to me, "That [f-bomb] little [poop-word starting with s] is drivin' me bonkers." A couple of years after that I'm at library school doing some group work--we have to put together a skit showcasing a user interaction at a user desk in a library. I scripted. My group-mates had me revise the grandma user character, not because no one ever swears in libraries mind you, but because they couldn't reconcile sweet grandma with f-bombing grandma. #lifestrangerthanfiction

                  Like Jedi and Sith, just because something is thematically opposite, doesn't entail that it can't, won't or shouldn't go together.

                  That said, choosing to merge something along thematic lines is thoroughly valid. But it isn't more valid than any other design decision that could be made. Like real life systems and models, fictional systems and models can be quite complex and more often than not counter-intuitive relations occur.

                  One can argue that using the same thematic congruence, one should merge Mérges Sorcery with Coils of the Dragon because it is even more thematically appropriate since at the end of the day both Mérges Sorcery and Coils are deeply rooted in affecting the Beast and the basic Vampiric condition, whereas Crúac is straight up magic powered by blood.

                  One could also argue that a good story concerns itself with more than just theme and thereby merge Mérges Sorcery with any other Vampiric Power (including rebuilding it as a Discipline or a series of Devotions) because there are other compelling reasons to do so: e.g., the plot calls for it, the established backstory indicates it, etc.

                  The moral here isn't that one way is more right than another way; it's that there are multiple ways to do things and you really don't have to justify your design decisions because whatever decision you're making is the right one for your game.

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