Most useful physical discipline

[Newes]

Input requested. A protracted debate happened among some friends stemming from various disagreements on various topics. I won't bore anyone with how the unsatisfied discussion happened, but the basic question is "which physical discipline is, in general, the most useful?". Specifically:

1) in a character that likes to use physical confrontation and violence to get things done, or
2) in a character that enjoys using all the perks of a vampire, but mainly uses the physical as an avenue to avoid consequences (fleeing - speed is not the only factor here).

I maintain vigor will give you the most utility in the long run in both cases. What do most of you find to be the case?

[tsusasi]

1. Celerity allows you to attack first or interrupt most attacks on you, effectively nullifying them. Using Vigor to throw a car at someone doesn't mean much if they can move out of the way before you can pick up the car, shove a knife in your elbow to inflict an arm wrack tilt or ram a stake in your chest.

2. For the short term, Vigor is more utilitarian because it increases your damage capability and increases your movement rate slightly but for most utility in the long run is Resilience. You can reduce aggravated damage to nothing (unless you like spending multiple nights healing and exsanguinating multiple humans to recover) or heal more efficiently by employing it as armor. But for short term use it sucks.

[Malus]

Hard "it depends". Physically confronting other vampires implies the shit has hit the fan domain-wise. It's a strange Prince the one who tolerates such displays on their hunting grounds, and a sheriff that won't completely out-phase you in all those arenas. Kindred are predators, but they ought to be subtle predators. Most physical disciplines are blatant in their usage. It is also blatant when Kindred suffer torpor or final death - blood sympathy means every clan-mate within a mile will feel it, to say nothing of his siblings, sire, grandsire, childe and grandchilde, and their siblings, which will prompt them to one would assume, take cards on that business.

[ArcaneArts]

WHile I am firmly in the "depends on the context" camp, It's hard to argue with the rough versatility of Celerity.

[Newes]

WHile I am firmly in the "depends on the context" camp, It's hard to argue with the rough versatility of Celerity.

Celerity is great, but IMO is more blood dependent. Vigor shines brighter when bloodpools are low.

[Newes]

1. Celerity allows you to attack first or interrupt most attacks on you, effectively nullifying them. Using Vigor to throw a car at someone doesn't mean much if they can move out of the way before you can pick up the car, shove a knife in your elbow to inflict an arm wrack tilt or ram a stake in your chest.

2. For the short term, Vigor is more utilitarian because it increases your damage capability and increases your movement rate slightly but for most utility in the long run is Resilience. You can reduce aggravated damage to nothing (unless you like spending multiple nights healing and exsanguinating multiple humans to recover) or heal more efficiently by employing it as armor. But for short term use it sucks.

Aggravated damage is fairly rare in our games. Maybe if it wasn't I would appreciate Resilience more (though it is always harder top appreciate a passive ability).

[tsusasi]

Aggravated damage is fairly rare in our games. Maybe if it wasn't I would appreciate Resilience more (though it is always harder top appreciate a passive ability).

Straight out aggravated damage is somewhat rare. But when you and your opponents can crank out five plus bashing damage per turn AFTER you have spent vitae to heal or everyone is trotting around with ranks of Vigor, Aggravated damage becomes a legitimate combat logistics concern. There’s also something to be said for dramatic visuals when the maxed out Resilience character who has a marble tabletop broken on their face by the maxed out Vigor character for 6 Lethal, promptly heals it all for one vitae and proceeds to body slam their attacker onto the broken tabletop pieces now lying on the floor.

[Newes]

Straight out aggravated damage is somewhat rare. But when you and your opponents can crank out five plus bashing damage per turn AFTER you have spent vitae to heal or everyone is trotting around with ranks of Vigor, Aggravated damage becomes a legitimate combat logistics concern. There’s also something to be said for dramatic visuals when the maxed out Resilience character who has a marble tabletop broken on their face by the maxed out Vigor character for 6 Lethal, promptly heals it all for one vitae and proceeds to body slam their attacker onto the broken tabletop pieces now lying on the floor.

I thought you could only heal the visual damage from resiliance use while resting.

[Tessie]

Straight out aggravated damage is somewhat rare. But when you and your opponents can crank out five plus bashing damage per turn AFTER you have spent vitae to heal or everyone is trotting around with ranks of Vigor, Aggravated damage becomes a legitimate combat logistics concern. There’s also something to be said for dramatic visuals when the maxed out Resilience character who has a marble tabletop broken on their face by the maxed out Vigor character for 6 Lethal, promptly heals it all for one vitae and proceeds to body slam their attacker onto the broken tabletop pieces now lying on the floor.

Resilience only downgrades aggravated damage dealt to you. Not bashing or lethal damage that wraps around to aggravated.

[tsusasi]

No, Resilience only downgrades it’s rating in aggravated damage dealt to lethal at no vitae cost as a persistent ability.

The active effects either lets you remove Resilience rating +1 in damage from all nonbane sources and/or your Resilience rating in damage from bane sources except sunlight for one vitae, once per turn.