[2E] Kindred fighting Uratha werewolves

[wyrdhamster]

How I solve 'what characters knows with each Occult dot' is described in this topic. Simply exchange each 5 Successes to roll on Reaserch for 1 dot of Occult. Here is Uratha sum up.

Special Rule: Uratha strict lore is for the character with Specialty in them or characters that have 1 Occult dot higher - so character with Occult ( Uratha ) 2 or Occult 3 get information that Uratha have five forms. Werewolf phenomena is very diverse, especially because of Wolf-Blooded and related beings.

Successes	Information
5	Werewolves are in the world and some part of their condition makes them allergic to silver. It is also generally agreed that the shapeshifters seem to share some special kind of relationship with spirits and they travel in packs. Proper werewolves call themselves Uratha
10	Werewolves may shift form independent of the phase of the moon. Uratha have five forms, compared to other shapeshifters.
15	The sight of a werewolf transformed causes madness in mortals that forces them to forget or misremember what they’ve seen. Uratha must hunt and can easily be provoked to become raging monsters.
20	The bite of a werewolf does not cause lycanthropy – most of the time. There are tales that seeing or experiencing Uratha can ‘infect’ you with werewolf lesser related phenomena.
25+	Werewolves form into Tribes and packs, with subdivisions based on the phase of the moon. There seem to be two separate factions of werewolves and they will usually attack each other on sight. Basic information on Tribes.

[Malus]

The onus of putting the bane of a creature sworn to 'Do Not Let The Herd Know' at the lowest echelon of your table and the fact that they organize themselves in tribes or revere the moon at it's peak is on you, wyrdhamster

[Michael]

How I solve 'what characters knows with each Occult dot' is described in this topic. Simply exchange each 5 Successes for 1 dot of Occult. Here is Uratha sum up.

I feel you're overthinking this. I mean, your division of info is really arbitrary. Like, why is knowing the word 'Uratha', an easy piece of info? Whilst knowing that bites don't cause Lycanthropy is much harder? The latter you can easily learn from simply fighting them, the former really would require a fair amount of surveillance or interaction.

Honestly, you were fine with:

they are proto Ordo Dracul group that studies Blood and inner magics of monsters. They also hunt for Uratha Blood for few decades now, even if that means 3 fights for all those years.

The only thing that will matter is if your players will question it.

[Newes]

If you actually knew something about werewolves in the setting you might know about silver. Otherwise there's no chance because silver as a weakness was invented in the 20th century. That's why it would be practically impossible to guess based on superstitions alone.

The Beast of Gevaudan, one of those things that is associated with werewolves, and that in retrospect was sometimes seen as a werewolf, was famously killed by a silver bullet in the late 1700s. It started being associated with werewolves at least by the 1800s, so the "silver as werewolf bane" concept is older than the "sunlight vaporizes vampires idea" IRL. (even if it is newer than vikings).

[wyrdhamster]

Tables were done 2 years ago, based on the similar tables in Silver Ladder 1E book and mechanics - which generally states what I putted in them. If you question this content - move this off-topic to the main topic of [2E] Researching supernaturals in game, where all the idea was presented in the first place. Moderators can move few posts on this to it, if they feel went a large off-topic from vampires fighting Uratha.

[Michael]

The Beast of Gevaudan, one of those things that is associated with werewolves, and that in retrospect was sometimes seen as a werewolf, was famously killed by a silver bullet in the late 1700s. It started being associated with werewolves at least by the 1800s, so the "silver as werewolf bane" concept is older than the "sunlight vaporizes vampires idea" IRL. (even if it is newer than vikings).

There seems to be a claim floating round that the silver bullet element of the Beast of Gevaudan story is from a 1935 novelisation.

[tsusasi]

The Beast of Gévaudan was most likely a young lion or wolf/lion cross. Jean Chastel who is historically credited with killing it, used silver bullets after numerous reports that it had been shot by others and it still didn’t die.

[Live Bait]

Ok so as a Vampire that would ideally like Werewolf blood but is willing to take a Wolfblooded and knows I have a largish group travaling close to my home and assuming disciplines of Animalism, Protein and Resilience are the only ones I can garentee at a high level some ideas are.
Ask for one, they may just give me what I want, who knows?
Use that Animalism 4 (I think) power that makes everyone fight then hide in the ground, I might get lucky and have fewer Wolves to deal with, I only need one survivor right?
Invoke the Seductive Beast to get one of the Wolfblooded to follow me willingly due to Wanton, it's free to use on mortals.
If I know they're likely to show up make sure I use Animalism 5 on my territory and give my allies permission to enter, it gives me a better chance to talk them into just handing one over plus messes with their dice pool when they attack, make sure the Vampire who lets them through and the vampire protecting the ritual sight are different so they can't easily attack me afterwards.

Remember that any Ghouls will be unable to use Animalism higher than the first dot because they involve spilling blood.

[Vent0]

Hey, wyrdhamster - what Gifts and Rites do the PCs possess? Because that could very easily turn "vampire ambush" into "vampires massacred".

[Malus]

Tables were done 2 years ago, based on the similar tables in Silver Ladder 1E book and mechanics - which generally states what I putted in them. If you question this content - move this off-topic to the main topic of [2E] Researching supernaturals in game, where all the idea was presented in the first place. Moderators can move few posts on this to it, if they feel went a large off-topic from vampires fighting Uratha.

Know thy enemy. There's little reason to learn anything beyond the first step on that table. No mention of Kuruth anywhere therein. And Lunacy makes remember the off-chance of silver being a bane difficult to fathom.

[wyrdhamster]

If the characters are Ordo Dracul members whom themselves has studied Wooofs for decades they might fucking surprise the Wooofs when the vampires themselves change into Gauru-form.

Poseur, can you point me how Ordo Dracul vamps can take Gauru-form?

[tsusasi]

Any vampire with Protean 4+ could.
There's a scale where the Dragon can graft a body part from another vampire or creature and temporarily steal their power from that individual and use it personally.
So technically, they could sever a paw, or rip the fangs or claws from a Uratha, graft it onto themself and take Gauru form.

[Primordial newcomer]

Are y'all sure it could take gauru form? That's a pretty big assumption

[Poseur]

Poseur, can you point me how Ordo Dracul vamps can take Gauru-form?

It's a Scale called Grafting Unholy Flesh in Secrets of the Covenants. You steal a supernatural power from someone, vampire, psychic or other supernatural creature by grafting a symbolic part of their power onto yourself. It costs a bit of both vitae and willpower to activate and the grafted bodypart can be destroyed. But as shape-changing is a supernatural ability, that could definitely be stolen. If you steal all forms or just one of the forms is probably a ST call, I'd say one form though.

I definitely see this power as skinning a werewolf and using it's pelt sawed onto yourself.

[Malus]

See, here's the thing: you sever a werewolf's extremity or what have you, you end up with a human extremity, or what have you. Unfit to be consigned metamorphoses-worthy, unless you somehow devise some way to give that thing a constant and ludicrous flow of essence. Lune essence.

Your better targets are wolfblooded with tells you can rip off. Pelt tell? Carve off the Unholy sign that allows him to turn to Dalu?

But no Blooded has access to The Father's Form. Nor they should.