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Hunger in Requiem?

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  • #16
    The low Satiety bonuses to Atavisms, and the high Satiety bonuses to Nightmares, are handled by those powers, not by by Satiety Conditions though.

    It's obviously a lot more time intensive to run through Disciplines and other Vampires powers and give them all these sorts of clauses, but that's really the only way for it to work (even if you try to do something more limited than each power getting it's own thing).

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    • #17
      I'm very interested in this as well. I never really liked the gas tank, and I love what they're trying to achieve narratively with Hunger, especially Messy Crits. The beast is always with you. I hope they may address some options for this kind of approach in the Guide to the Night.

      As for Hunger dice directly imported, a reddit user named booji was kind enough to run some initial numbers on what the stats might look like. Take a look here.



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      • #18
        One nice thing about tying Frenzy to Hunger levels and rolls is that it can always be a risk. Enough penalties can risk Dramatic Failure on its own, and players can always opt to turn normal Failures into Dramatic ones for a Beat.

        If one were to integrate other mechanics into Hunger (such as Physical Intensity bonuses, Predatory Aura strength or effects, or even Supernatural Tolerance), they it adds the same dynamic dilemma that Beast's Satiety does - keep Hungry but able to access more vampiric power, or try to stay Sated to limit the downsides of the vampiric condition, but lack as much inherent "oomph"?

        Rough mechanics:

        Conditions: Gorged -> Stated -> Hungry -> Ravenous -> Starved

        Rouse the Blood
        Action: Reflexive
        Base Dice Pool: Lowest of Resistance Attributes + Blood Potency
        Results
        Dramatic Failure: The Beast surges and takes control. If the vampire was attempting an action that provoked the Hunger Check, then that action succeeds (though influenced by the Beast) and the character enters whatever kind of Frenzy is applicable.
        Failure: The action either fails, or succeeds but moves the vampire's Hunger to the next applicable Condition. If already Starved, Failure is automatically treated as Dramatic Failure.
        Success: The blood stirs, empowering the action.
        Exceptional Success: The blood responds readily, empowering the action and granting the vampire the (pick a Condition or create a new one?) Condition.

        Each subsequent use of Rouse the Blood at the same Hunger Condition incurs a cumulative -1 Penalty.

        Conditions
        Gorged (Hunger, Persistent)
        You've fed enough that the Beast rests contented, at least until roused or the end of the night. You do not need to roll for Frenzy, and your body acts as if it were living, behaving as if the Blush of Life were constantly active without cost. Sunlight no longer burns you, but it is greatly draining - you take 1 point of Resistant Bashing damage every 10 minutes.

        It isn't all good, though. Your Beast can't be bothered to Lash Out. Your body's commitment to imitating life extends to bleeding out and thinking it needs those organs, so most Lethal damage is not downgraded to Bashing. And your sense are about as sharp as they were went alive.
        Beat: N/A
        Resolution: At the next sunset or when you fail a Rouse the Blood check, trade this Condition for Stated.
        Stated (Hunger, Persistent)
        Your Beast is well fed, but still attentive. It can be roused into Frenzy, but can be held back as well. Sunlight burns you, dealing 1 Lethal damage every minute. Your Clan Bane affects you, influencing your interactions and feeding patterns.

        Your active Beast helps you, however. Your senses heighten, reducing your reliance upon any single one. When you gain this Condition, pick a single Physical Attribute - you gain a bonus to those rolls equal to your Blood Potency. You can spur your Beast to Lash Out against mortals for 1 Willpower, inflicting a relevant Condition upon them.
        Beat: N/A
        Resolution: At the next sunset, trade this Condition for Hungry. By Feeding, trade this Condition for Gorged.
        Hungry (Hunger, Persistent)
        The Beast growls with hunger, prompting you to seek out prey whenever you are able. Attempts to resist Frenzy are penalized by -2. Your Predatory mien starts to affect the kine, imposing a -1 Penalty on social rolls involving humans. Sunlight sears your unliving flesh with greater alacrity, dealing 1 Lethal damage a turn. Your Personal Banes kick in, affecting further vulnerabilities and your behavior.

        But at least the Beast is more attentive. When you gain this Condition, you can pick two Physical Attribute rolls to get your Blood Potency as a bonus. Your Kindred Senses awaken, allowing your to spot out blood at a casual glance, or smell it within 3 meters per point of Blood Potency. You can Lash Out with your Predatory Aura for free against mortals, and even against other supernaturals for 1 Willpower.
        Beat: N/A
        Resolution: At the next sunset, trade this Condition for Ravenous. By Feeding, trade this Condition for Sated.
        Ravenous (Hunger, Persistent)
        Your Beast is rattling the cage of your will, urging you to get out there and feed it. Attempts to resist Frenzy are penalized by -4. unless invoking the Blush of Life, you are clearly a walking predatory corpse, imposing a -3 penalty to social rolls involving humans. Sunlight burns you like a raging flame, dealing 1 Aggravated damage a turn. Your Clan and Personal Banes worsen, [Mechanics Pending...].

        However, the Beast grants you greater strength for the hunt. You gain your Blood Potency as a bonus to all Physical rolls. Your Kindred Senses improve to being able to smell blood within 10 meters per point of Blood Potency, and you can hear hearts beating 3 yards per point of Blood Potency away.
        Beat: Forgoing a clear opportunity to Feed.
        Resolution: At the next sunset, trade this Condition for Starved. By Feeding, trade this Condition for Hungry.
        Starved (Hunger, Persistent)
        You are running on empty, and the Beast will not be denied. All attempts to resist Frenzy are reduced to a Chance Die. You look like a desiccated corpse, and all social attempts involving humans take a -5 penalty. Sunlight scours your form, dealing 3 Aggravated damage a Turn. Your Beast is always Lashing Out, and now does so Reflexively, but at least it no longer requires a Willpower point even against non-human targets. You cannot even resist your Clan and Personal Banes, with them automatically driving your actions, or striking to the core of your being.

        On the other fang, with your Beast so close to the surface it is ready to burst out, your physical form is bolstered. You get twice your Blood Potency in a bonus to all Physical rolls. Additionally, your senses are honed to a razor's edge - you can automatically sense anything with blood even in it within 3 meters per Blood Potency (negating any penalties from Tilts such as Blind), and smell blood within a kilometer.

        If you still haven't fed by the next sunrise, you gain the Torpor Condition.
        Beat: Interacting with human in such a state for purposes other than feeding.
        Resolution: By Feeding, trade this Condition for Ravenous.
        Torpor (Persistent)
        Your Beast has been rendered comatose, and with it, so have you. You are left paralyzed, dreaming, until your Beast eventually recovers and awakens. After [Interval to be determined], roll your Touchstones. Upon success, resolve this Condition.
        Beat: When one of your Touchstones or a Social Merit passes away while you slumber.
        Resolution: Being fed applicable blood.

        Tilts
        Frenzy (Personal)
        Description: Your Beast is raging out of control. It wants and will do whatever it takes to get it, without regard for long term consequences.
        Effect: [Frenzy mechanics pending...]
        Causing the Tilt: Failing a roll to resist Frenzy or Dramatically Failing a Rouse the Blood check.
        Ending the Tilt: At the end of the Scene or upon being talked down by a Touchstone.


        So, anything that uses Vitae costs can impose an additional penalty on the check. Subsequent uses in the same Hunger level impose increasing penalties, making Failure (or even Dramatic Failure) more likely. The Player is never quite denied the use of their powers, since they can opt to either fall into Frenzy or downgrade their Hunger level to make it work. The Blood Potency bonus in the Dice Pool make it so older, more experience Kindred can make their blood work longer.

        The Conditions are meant to factor into the other parts of "being a Vampire", impacting other Vitae using template abilities, and Banes (replacing or augmenting Humanity's role in them). So Sunlight and Fire are less damaging when you are "topped up", Clan Bane (and Personal Banes) only kick in when you are merely Sated, but you can't access the (now "free") Physical Intensity bonuses and such. Still working on the exact details.
        Last edited by Vent0; 08-17-2018, 10:23 AM.


        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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        • #19
          this is great, thanks Vent0! i'm very interested to see this develop. even better if we can leverage systems already present in CofD.


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          • #20
            Updated the post above. Still working on a few bits, and I've taken some liberties instead of doing a direct translation.

            I'm uncertain how to make the relation between getting hungrier and feed - as it stands, each feeding increases the Condition, and each day it decreases the Condition. Maybe it should be extended a bit for the lower Conditions before decreasing, and make gaining the higher Conditions harder?

            Another idea here (not yet implemented) is that Feeding inflicts Resistant Lethal damage, so you can't just Feed off another Vampire and heal it back with Rouse the Blood.

            Comments and advice are welcome.


            Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
            Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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            • #21
              Since Conditions give beats for resolving using them would speed up progression, I'm not saying this is a bad thing but it's something to keep in mind.

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              • #22
                Well, these actually get traded without Resolving by intention. They are more a different book-keeping that pure Conditions are. That said, the Hungrier Conditions do have a Beat line.

                If one were removing Humanity (due to the reduced impact of it on Banes and social modifiers) using this system, I'd leverage Touchstones more for that "Monster vs Man" dynamic. Detachment checks would simply "detach" Touchstones rather than lower Humanity score.

                Or you could just keep Humanity as-is (and use Humanty's impact upon Banes and social modifiers, use these Hunger conditions, or layer them both together).


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                • #23
                  yeah, i'd mostly separate out the Humanity functions and keep Humanity as is. it seems to stack up too many things and make them dependent on how much you feed. particluarly things like Banes, where the more monstrous i behave to gorge myself and keep myself full, the more i can avoid my Banes, which seems a bit counter intuitive to me.

                  i could be misunderstanding, though, but i'd tease them out more.

                  thanks for this!


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by nicodemus View Post
                    yeah, i'd mostly separate out the Humanity functions and keep Humanity as is. it seems to stack up too many things and make them dependent on how much you feed. particluarly things like Banes, where the more monstrous i behave to gorge myself and keep myself full, the more i can avoid my Banes, which seems a bit counter intuitive to me.

                    i could be misunderstanding, though, but i'd tease them out more.

                    thanks for this!
                    The intent for that was: your Banes are a blatantly vampiric influence, which is reduced when you are more "full". Doing monstrous thing to satisfy your Banes and hunger would then leave you (possibly) guilty after that no longer applies. But if you don't keep topped off, it is going to affect you again. Victimize flagrantly of your own choice to keep your choice, or victimize because you become no more than a monster who only can? Welcome to your Requiem! (Or, yeah, cut that part. It's all optional - that was just the reasoning.)

                    Mechanically, should all Hunger Conditions drop after a night, or should some take multiple consecutive nights (or a failed-and-forced-it-anyways Rouse the Blood check)? Similarly, does "feeding" automatically up you a Condition, or should it take more effort to reach Sated and Gorged?


                    Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                    Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      i can dig your reasoning. there's an elegance to it, for sure.

                      i'm partial to the rouse check on wake. there's already built in penalties for multiple rouses at the same condition, so it should work itself out. we're aiming at the narrative quality of the blood, so don't need to worry about re-simulating the old rules.

                      feeding. maybe one level per safe feed, two for exsanguination? i like the idea of gorged being harder to reach, but i don't want to introduce too much rules complexity. does Beast distinguish between the levels like that?


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nicodemus View Post
                        i'm partial to the rouse check on wake. there's already built in penalties for multiple rouses at the same condition, so it should work itself out. we're aiming at the narrative quality of the blood, so don't need to worry about re-simulating the old rules.


                        So, roll on waking, taking a -1 each consecutive night? Should the -1 Penalty persist all night?

                        Originally posted by nicodemus View Post
                        feeding. maybe one level per safe feed, two for exsanguination? i like the idea of gorged being harder to reach, but i don't want to introduce too much rules complexity. does Beast distinguish between the levels like that?
                        What about incremental required feedings? 1 to go from Starved to Ravenous. 2 in Ravenous to get to Hungry. 3 in Hungry to make you Sated. 4 feeding in Stated to send you to Gorged.

                        Or what about an inverse of the above, using a Rouse the Blood each feeding, except each Lethal inflicted gives a +1 bonus and success increases the Condition. Gorged could be gate behind needing an Exceptional Success.

                        Just some ideas.


                        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                          So, roll on waking, taking a -1 each consecutive night? Should the -1 Penalty persist all night?
                          Don't think about the nightly roll as special or different. It's just another Rouse check, just like any other Rouse check, and functions just like any other Rouse check wherein each subsequent use of Rouse the Blood at the same Hunger Condition incurs a cumulative -1 Penalty. No special rules needed.


                          Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                          What about incremental required feedings? 1 to go from Starved to Ravenous. 2 in Ravenous to get to Hungry. 3 in Hungry to make you Sated. 4 feeding in Stated to send you to Gorged.

                          Or what about an inverse of the above, using a Rouse the Blood each feeding, except each Lethal inflicted gives a +1 bonus and success increases the Condition. Gorged could be gate behind needing an Exceptional Success.
                          the first example is A LOT of feeding. a lot. i'd say way too much. how much blood can one safely take from a human now? 4? 5 points? less? that might help us frame it a bit better about the intent of the game. that'd two separate safe feeds to full. for your average neonate.

                          i kinda like the idea of Gorged being gated, but Rouse isn't appropriate here i'd think, and i don't want to just turn feeding into a roll-off. We should err toward narrative simplicity for maximum impact and fluidity. i'd still go with my first instinct here, one level per safe feed, two for exsanguination. simple and straightforward, tempts someone if they're in a rush. feeding from Starved to Gorged would still be 4 safe feeds, or two dead bodies to deal with. both are a hassle.

                          just my .02!
                          Last edited by nicodemus; 08-21-2018, 04:48 PM.


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