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**Phersus** · 05-06-2014, 07:15 AM

I absolutely loved the concept. And picking the Daeva, of all the Clans, for this is a really nice touch. That said, and even though their "name" is apropiate, tanking in consideration their Bane, is a little annoying reading [Illegible] again and again. I suggest you to find a name for them, and let's just pretend the information came from a supernaturally protected archive.

The more i think about it, the more i like the feeling of opression and "fade away". They strongly remind me of Dark Souls 2 intro [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuGzqAQIHwQ]

The other link is a song i was just listening when i started to read your post. I include it here because to me shows perfectly the theme and mood. [

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**Phersus** · 05-06-2014, 07:30 AM

By the way, how do you contest the Bloodline Gift? You make a Resolve + Composure (+ Blood Potency or Supernatural Trait if there's any) dice roll?

**Unahim** · 05-06-2014, 11:34 AM

Shouldn't "nothing happened" add to, rather than subtract from, humanity?

**amechra** · 05-06-2014, 11:55 AM

Nothing Happened subtracts from Humanity rather than adds to it, simply because the effects of their Bane worsen as Humanity drops. It kinda looks wonky, because the table its referencing is ascending rather than descending, but who needs more tables?

Nothing Happened is there to let low-Humanity high-Obfuscate Kindred cover up crimes; if they can force their effective Humanity below 0, then any records of the scene fade at the end of the next scene. Memories fade after two nights. Try to pursue a murder investigation when you can' remember that there was a murder.

Fun fact: a Draugr from this bloodline often remembers less about themselves than their childer or sire do. As is appropriate.

The thing about contesting the Gift is that you kinda don't, just like you don't contest a Vampire sucking blood out of your neck like a straw. Maybe if I instead let them replace Scarred and Swooning with False Memories while feeding?

As for names... I can see Ghost, but that already refers to, you know, an entire type of beings... Maybe something to do with Lethe? I have to admit, part of the reason for their current name is that I am terrible at names.

**Unahim** · 05-06-2014, 12:02 PM

Your intent was clear, but as it stands the bane states that at high humanity (10) the memories would fade after a scene, while at very low (0) the memory would stay forever. This because at high humanity your base torpor duration is low (thus fast resolution) and at low humanity is is long (thus slow resolution). So basically, the devotion as written makes the memory of the crime last longer.

**Phersus** · 05-06-2014, 12:26 PM

The problem with the Gift as of now, is that it's extremely powerful if goes uncontested.

I suggest you to keep one way of contesting it and make it temporal, so if the vampire continues feeding on the same prey it will become permanent, but if not they will simply smooth away (as life gets evolving and filling with news experiences the soul. Yes, it would be extremely disturbing not remembering your husband, but maybe you can almost remember... but ok, nothing overtly supernatural here,maybe it's time to go to the hospital and talk with the doctors). You could give one point for each feeding, that would dissapear over "X" nights (being for example 5 - Subject's integrity). If the vampire keeps feeding that way and acquires more points than the victim's willpower, then they acquire a Condition. Mortals - Soulles, Vampires - Languid, for example, or some variation of that.

There are some awesome Conditions in the book, that you could use (as result of the Gift or even as result of other Devotions of the Bloodline) like:

LETHARGIC
Your character is drained and lethargic, feeling the weight of
sleeplessness. With this Condition, your character cannot spend
Willpower. As well, for every six hours he goes without sleeping,
take a cumulative –1 die penalty to all actions. At every six-hour
interval, make a Stamina + Resolve roll (with the penalty) to
resist falling asleep until the sun next sets.

BROKEN (PERSISTENT)
Whatever you did or saw, something inside you snapped.
You can barely muster up the will to do your job anymore, and
anything more emotionally intense than a raised voice makes
you flinch and back down. Apply a –2 die penalty to all Social
rolls and rolls involving Resolve, and a –5 die penalty to all use
of the Intimidation Skill.

LANGUID
Your character feels the draw of torpor. His actions grow
sluggish each night that passes, until eventually he falls to the
sleep of ages. Every night that passes with this Condition, levy
a cumulative –1 die penalty on all actions. As well, rising from
daysleep requires a point of Vitae for each dot of Blood Potency.

THRALL (PERSISTENT)
The character has fully succumbed to the effects of
soullessness. She may not spend Willpower points for any
reason, may not use her Defense in combat, may not spend
Experiences, and suffers all the effects of the Broken Condition
(p. 301) as well. The player should only continue playing a
character with this Condition if there’s a chance of regaining
the soul.

One Vigor Devotion could be diablerizing a Vampire by using the Gift, maybe.

And about the name of the Bloodline, maybe "Echoes" would fit them.

**That Other Guy** · 05-06-2014, 01:04 PM

Personally, while I love the concept, I think the weakness could do with a clearer mechanical implementation (though that fluff still works). I would suggest "Any die rolls or merits that would be based on the character's reputation or standing (such as Status) are capped by the characters Humanity".

Or, alternatively "The character may only have a number o dots in MErits based around personal connections or standing equa to their dots in Humanity (so an [Illegible] with Humanity 5 may have City Status 2, clan Status 2 and Allies (underworld) 1, but no more).

**amechra** · 05-06-2014, 11:35 PM

Part of me was actually thinking of an alternate Bane: this is on top of the Lost Visage affecting everything:

An [Illegible]'s penalty to social rolls due to Humanity applies to all rolls to remember them, as well as any and all rolls to remember something; this ignores the benefit of the Eidetic Memory merit. Due to the erosive nature of their presence, they cannot purchase the 3-dot version of the Alternate Identity merit, the Eidetic Memory merit, or the Fame merit, and apply the penalty to Social rolls due to Humanity to the maximum number of dots they may have in a given type of Kindred Status; if the pool would be reduced to a Chance Die, they cannot have dots in Kindred Status at all.

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I think that'll do it; Status is going to be harder to maintain, due to the simple fact that people have difficulty remembering your favours. And, well, Humanity 4 means you can have a maximum of 3 dots in a given type of Status; dropping to Humanity 3 reduces that to 2, and anything lower means you can't have any dots. I think that's harsh enough.

Also, how does Forlorn sound?

Also, alternate gift:

Devour the Past
An [Illegible] may choose to drain memories while feeding as well as Vitae; if they do so, their bite inflicts the False Memories condition instead of the Scarred or Swooning condition. Their bite can only remove memories; an [Illegible] consuming a woman's memories of her girlfriend leaves a messy, bloody gap in that woman's memories, which will eventually heal over.

---

I feel that False Memories isn't that powerful if I don't, you know, have it lead to eating souls. The thing about False Memories is that it is also really easy to resolve; if the example woman ran into her girlfriend, she'd immediately get a Breaking Point roll when confronted by evidence, which for most people will be at a +0 or +1, and, eh, if the player wants the memory back, 1 wp can boost the bonus to +3/+4.

I mean, unless the memories that got munched on were stuff like the memories of committing a murder or of their own torture, most of the breaking point rolls are going to be pretty easy to succeed on.

As for Vigor, I do have the perfect name: Disremembered.

Now I just need mechanics to go with it.

**Phersus** · 05-07-2014, 06:48 AM

I really like the new Gift, and the name of the Bloodline. Forlon sounds good. Hollows could be good too (but that's Dark Souls whispering in my mind again). The elaboration of the Bane is well and good, but maybe a little too long. I mean, try to simplify it. Lost Visage was good enough for me, though this adition feels good, is rather logical.

If you want to have the soul-eating vibe in the bloodline (which i approve, it fits really well in the theme) create one Devotion for it. Disremembered could be great for that.

Lets say... you require Majesty 4 + Ofuscate 4 + Vigor. With this devotion the vampire can devour souls. Not only Vampire souls, but also mortal or other supernatural souls. Mechanically would be the same as Diablerie, but after finishing it would erase the memories of the people regarding the victim. Depending on the successes scored after devouring the soul, the memory of the victim fades away starting by the people with less familiarity with the victim (her acquaintances, for example), and then moving to the friends, and eventually family. Supernatural conections (as Blood Bonds, the bound by a Spiritual Totem in the case of Werewolves, and some spells for Mages) could all make harder to erase the memory.

By the way. Thinking about that devotion, i came to realize that maybe they could be better a Venture Bloodline than a Daeva one. Think about it. Dominate is known for erasing the personality of the dominated when applied repeatedly, but Majesty doesn't feel that way. And the Bane of the Bloodline could be as bitter in a Ventrue as in a Daeva. In that case, i'd replace the Majesty requiremente by a Dominate requirement.

**Unahim** · 05-07-2014, 12:15 PM

The new Gift is -much- better. I forgot to mention it last time I posted, but being able to feed without draining blood might have made it too easy for them to feed off of small herds.

**amechra** · 05-07-2014, 01:48 PM

The reason they are Daeva and not Ventrue is not because Majesty has anything to do with memory (or rather, the impairment thereof.)

It's more... Daeva are almost designed to be attention whores; they get Majesty as a statement that they are the glamourous ones, the beautiful people. Your average Daeva will probably have a dot or two in Majesty because turning heads is a natural part of the Daeva condition.

The Forlorn (or [Illegible]) have a self-erasing presence; think of it like their blood developed an anti-Majesty (which is what Obfuscate essentially is, anyway). If the Daeva are celebrities, then the Forlorn bloodline is a comment on the flash-in-the-pan nature of most celebrities. Blink and you'll miss them.

If it was a Ventrue bloodline, it would have more of a "secret masters" vibe; it would be an extension of something they already do, rather than a mutation in the blood that supplies a contrast to the main archetype of the clan. If I were to point to a pre-existing Bloodline that contrasts the parent bloodline similarly, I'd point to the Players; they are Mekhet who get Majesty and are decidedly ignorant about the nature of the All-Night Society.

-----

I think I'll end up changing the Gift but keeping the Bane; realistically, the old Bane was pretty effective to get the theme across.

**Phaolan** · 09-06-2014, 01:48 PM

Let me just say that this bloodline of 'hollow Daeva' is better – at least for what *I* want in my game – than 90% of the published bloodlines I've seen in 'canon' so far. They have a clear reason for being what they are (, a reason for remaining mostly-unknown, and they come along with powers and weaknesses that don't feel like some 'They are LIKE the Gangrel but with, you know, another really awesome thing they do!'

Further, I applaud your attitude towards cooperation here. I've seen enough 'homebrew' ideas on these boards where the creator didn't much allow for any comments that weren't completely fannish and glowing. Sorry that it took me so long to find this thread, but I'm very happy that I did so!

**TheDiabadass** · 09-06-2014, 02:40 PM

So, when I was trying to come up with a bunch of bloodlines for my vancouver game, I used this one as inspiration for a Mekhet bloodline. Here they are.
Ijhyeojin

The Forgotten

“I think someone was following me. Check the tapes.”
“The tapes don’t show anyone, it just shows you acting paranoid.”
“I know I heard a noise out there, please check them again.”
One of the guards at the old gas plant swears this conversation happened on the night when his two co-workers disappeared, but the tapes don’t show them even coming to work. He is probably just paranoid.
Parent Clan: Mekhet
Bloodline Disciplines: Auspex, Celerity, Resilience, Obfuscate
Nicknames: The Rumors
Bloodline Bane: The Forgotten don’t so much as exist in the shadow as they are the absence of light. This semantic difference does not change much, and they keep the Mekhet Clan bane. They gain a bane when reaching Humanity 6 and treat humanity as one lower for banes, including sunlight and torpor.
In addition, the world seems to want to get rid of the Forgotten. Documentation of them (paintings of them or by them, video recordings and written descriptions of them, etc) lose evidence of their existence (signature from painting disappears, they do not appear in the tape, the written description goes missing). This happens at a speed based on their humanity. At humanity 10-9: 100 years, 8-7: 50 years, 6: 10 years, 5: 5 years, 4: 1 year, 3: 1 month, 2: 1 week, 1: 2 nights, 0: 1 night. In addition, rolls to remember the vampire takes the same humanity penalty as social rolls, and the total of merits like fame, infamy, and status are capped by dots in humanity.
History and Culture: Japan controlled the Korean peninsula from 1910 to 1945. While this was going on, Japan would move Koreans into labor camps located in the Japanese mainland as well as Manchukuo. Sim Dae-Seong was one of these Koreans. He was forced into a camp far to the north.
While there he was eventually embraced. This is at least what he says. It is hard to keep strong timetables on when anything happened to him due to his peculiar curse. If enough people even knew about him, they would probably argue whether or not Sim Dae-Seong was the progenitor or that the man claiming to be him is the real one.
After 1945, Korea was partitioned into two different states, and Manchukuo was controlled by China. Tension started to rise within these two states, and they closed off their borders. This lead to many Koreans in China and Japan feeling like they had nowhere to call home. Sim Dae-Seong felt listless, forgotten. In his current city he was even exiled from the court for not being native to the land.
With a pack of other kindred, he decided to flee the city. He moved deep into the mountains. What happened next is unknown, but currently, he is the only vampire who came out the other side, or so everyone thinks.
Reputation: As far as spies and saboteurs go, you cannot find a better group of vampires. While their bloodline is new, and therefore does not quite have the same esteem that the Nephilim have, they are highly sought after. Some vampires have noticed a peculiar phenomenon in the cities were the Rumors are most active. A Prince may search for the services of a Rumor, and then within a few months, forget they exist in the city. At this point the Prince will once again go searching for their services, never remembering who carried out the original deed.
Becoming: The Forgotten tend to be people who are rather forgettable. This often is shown as the vampires having neither really high or low stats. Those who become Forgotten often also have very few social merits, as they will simply just lose them as they descend into the monster.
Bloodline Gift: The Forgotten’s bane is just as much a blessing as it is a curse. Through this they gain a few static effects.
Erasure: These effects are static and are always available for one of the Forgotten. These abilities do not cost additional experience.

The world seems to want to get rid of the Forgotten. Documentation of them (paintings of them or by them, video recordings and written descriptions of them, etc) lose evidence of their existence (signature from painting disappears, they do not appear in the tape, the written description goes missing). This happens at a speed based on their humanity. At humanity 10-9: 100 years, 8-7: 50 years, 6: 10 years, 5: 5 years, 4: 1 year, 3: 1 month, 2: 1 week, 1: 2 nights, 0: 1 night. In addition, rolls to remember the vampire takes the same humanity penalty as social rolls.
As the Rumors become further lost within the evidence of their existence, they become more aware of their own powers. The ability to hide becomes easier when a vampire knows when they will be forgotten. Knowing which details disappear most easily helps them notice the smaller details. Flashing by quickly can be another way to be unnoticed. Living a life where one cannot rely on friends requires an extraordinary ability to survive. At Humanity 3 or lower the Forgotten gain a +1 bonus to any rolls using Obfuscate or Auspex. In addition, for the active effects of Celerity and Resilience, treat the vampire’s dots in these disciplines as one higher. This effect does not give them dots in these disciplines, it only helps their ability to use disciplines they already know.
While spending a point of vitae, the Forgotten can write their own name in blood on some form of information. This may be a painting, a usb drive, a dvd, or so on. The data becomes corrupted at the same rate that the existence of the vampire is normally erased. This effect destroys any usable data encoded on the device, and not just the evidence of the Forgotten’s existence like usual. This does not remove data not encoded on the device. The age of the picture frame, the materials that make up the paint, or the shape of the drive are not destroyed.

Devotion
Never There: It becomes harder to track a killer if it is impossible to track the body. With this power the vampire is able to decay the existence of their victim as they kill them.

Cost: 1 Willpower
Wits+Subterfuge vs. Resolve+Blood Potency
Action: Instant and contested
Dramatic Failure: The existence of the vampire becomes very clear on any evidence relating to the disappearance. This information does not decay regardless of the humanity of the vampire.
Failure: Nothing happens.
Success: Everything that the target did 24 hours preceding their death is slowly erased from the data. It is erased at the same speed as the existence of the vampire.
Exceptional Success: The effect does not happen slowly. Immediately the last 24 hours of both the vampire and the victim are erased from evidence.

Prerequisites: Obfuscate 3, Blood Potency 2
Experience Cost: 2

Mine was based on an extension of the Mekhet shadowy nature, as opposed to yours being based on a cruel ironic twist of fate on the Daeva. Mine is also based on the Korean diaspora living in China, who are often forgotten and feel like they have no (national) identity, as NK is too crazy, SK is too Western, and China was never theirs in the first place.

**Baaldam** · 09-12-2014, 01:52 AM

Kilroy, because he was here, there, everywhere - and nobody noticed. ;-)

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Daeva Bloodline: The [Illegible]

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