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vampire with armor

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  • vampire with armor

    VtR 2, page 180: "When applying armor to an attack dealing lethal damage, you always take at least one point of bashing damage from the shock of the blow."
    VtR 2, page 90: "Kindred take only bashing damage from many sources that would normally cause lethal damage to humans."

    Is this assumption correct? The light revolver deals 3 damage to a Vampire. It is lethal for a mortal, but bashing for a Vampire. The Kevlar vest 1/3 fully protects the Vampire. Does it mean that since the attack did not deal lethal damage the Vampire does not take the 1 point of bashing damage? Guns do bashing to a Vampire.

  • #2
    Yeah that seems fair, that kind of shock is more of a mortal concern, with broken bones and ruptured organs and bruising.

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    • #3
      By RAW the vampire would take 1 bashing as though it was still a hit. Like a punch to the gut, it still does some damage, ergo bashing. Vampires takes bashing damage as humans.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Poseur View Post
        By RAW the vampire would take 1 bashing as though it was still a hit. Like a punch to the gut, it still does some damage, ergo bashing. Vampires takes bashing damage as humans.
        But guns do bashing not lethal damage to Vampires. One suffers 1 bashing only if damaged with lethal weapon.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by skydiver View Post

          But guns do bashing not lethal damage to Vampires. One suffers 1 bashing only if damaged with lethal weapon.

          It does lethal before it hit's the vampire. Weapons does lethal damage, vampires downgrade it to bashing.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Poseur View Post


            It does lethal before it hit's the vampire. Weapons does lethal damage, vampires downgrade it to bashing.
            True. Therefore, when it hits the Vampire it does bashing and the Vampire should not suffer the 1 bashing when the damage is soaked by the armor.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Poseur View Post


              It does lethal before it hit's the vampire. Weapons does lethal damage, vampires downgrade it to bashing.
              Although I agree with your conclusion (the vampire takes 1 pt of bashing damage) The problem with that rationale is that the bashing damage is not caused by bullets breaking skin, it’s impact damage from the bullet hitting and being slowed or stopped by the armor.

              Whether or not the vampire takes damage is going to depend on how the ST adjudicates weapons that deal bashing damage to vampires and whether or not they mitigate it without Resilience. I do have a problem with the notion that a brick in a sock is just as effective as a dagger on a vampire.

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              • #8
                VtR 2e isn't always clear as one of the first 2e core books, but in general powers (including innate ones like vampire damage reduction) need to say if they ignore the "1 bashing damage minimum" from attacks that hit armor.

                It's also worth noting that the example here isn't accurate. 1/3 armor and 3 lethal damage a gun deals 2 bashing damage to the target after all armor is accounted for. The 1 general armor reduces the total damage by 1, and the 3 ballistic armor converts up to three lethal damage to bashing damage. So the 3L becomes 3B, and then reduces to 2B damage.

                Ballistic armor isn't useful for vampires facing normal guns, since they convert that to bashing on their own. General armor is more important to them.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                  I do have a problem with the notion that a brick in a sock is just as effective as a dagger on a vampire.
                  The brick should be more effective? I mean, vampires have more to worry about from their bones being broken than a dagger thrust into their organs.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Armor and Vampires

                    This very situation has appeared in my games, and this was the call I made.

                    The damage inflicted by the gun is reduced by the armor -before- a vampires resistance to lethal damage comes into play. I think of defensive abilities in layers - the first layer is Dodge, the Second Layer is Deflection/Equipped Armor/Natural Armor, the Third is Physical Properties of the Target. I am following the logic the energy of the bullet is dispersed by the Armor, reducing its damage from lethal to bashing. the remaining force is transferred to the target. Vampire reduce lethal, but after the armor has done its work, the remaining damage and the vampire deals with it the same way they deal with any other bashing attack.

                    While your storyteller might have a different take, this works well at my table.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tsusasi View Post

                      Although I agree with your conclusion (the vampire takes 1 pt of bashing damage) The problem with that rationale is that the bashing damage is not caused by bullets breaking skin, it’s impact damage from the bullet hitting and being slowed or stopped by the armor.

                      Whether or not the vampire takes damage is going to depend on how the ST adjudicates weapons that deal bashing damage to vampires and whether or not they mitigate it without Resilience. I do have a problem with the notion that a brick in a sock is just as effective as a dagger on a vampire.

                      Well as I said before, but maybe not clearly enough. I compared it to a punch in the gut. So yeah, damage would be taken from the absorbed shock.

                      Although I see no real game-breaking problems with ignoring this if it fits ones table.

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