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  • Ventrue Life
    replied
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

    Thanks! It rhymes, so should work alright. There's also a kind of incestuous connection to the story of Lilith, Inanna and the Strix in the Daeva book. And it's all vague enough that nothing about what really happened has to be explained at once. Just later, when researching the Strix.



    This is also entirely functional myth. And since it looks like you're also mashing up WoD cosmology (as I am, too, to conserve NPCs), it's a good idea I may borrow.

    Was there a First City? Who can tell now? In my arc Lilith sketches the Yellow Sign upon doomed, bright Valusia, and its drowning in the Doggerland to wreck her plans may have been the best and worst thing to happen to the world since the Fall of Atlantis. Perhaps these 13 Strix were the first to fly free, flapping desperately from the Abyss as the Seers call cleanup on aisle three! Heck, I've even got a Caine figure in the form of Fintan--studying the cursed blood the visitors brought from the future....

    Who said you have to choose between having and eating your legendary cake?

    --Khanwulf
    I stuck to the number 13 because it's the number of misfortune in most cultures, and yes, because in Vampire the Masquerade there were 13 Antediluvians. It's a nod to VtM for sure, but I try to keep my Requiem game an actual Requiem game, so while I like to throw the occasional nod to Masquerade in my Requiem game, it will never be more than just a nod or a reference. So no, Caine and no First City in my Requiem game.

    That being said, I did homebrew the Malkavians into my Requiem game, as a Ventrue bloodline (like the 1e Malkovian bloodline, but much closer to the VtM Malkavians), which you can find here, and I'm currently homebrewing the Tzimisce as "lost clan" with strong ties to Dracula and the Ordo Dracul, which you can find here. So maybe I'm throwing more Masquerade into my Requiem game than I'd like to admit.

    While I like how easy it is to do cross-splat in Chronicles of Darkness, I do try to steer clear from mixing the splat's mythologies. I personally avoid Atlantis and the Exarchs like the plague in my Requiem game. I like to keep my games "pure", with my vampire game actually focusing on vampire stuff, with the other splats being unknown factors. They exist, but they exist in the background.

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
    I like it.
    Thanks! It rhymes, so should work alright. There's also a kind of incestuous connection to the story of Lilith, Inanna and the Strix in the Daeva book. And it's all vague enough that nothing about what really happened has to be explained at once. Just later, when researching the Strix.

    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
    In my game, I decided that in ancient times, 13 extremely powerful Strix were worshipped as deities by various death cultists at various points in time. These Strix seemed to believe that the faith of these cultists is what spawned them in the first place, and it's their fault that they are trapped in our world now. Is that true though? Who knows. There is no evidence left that these 13 deities were ever Strix, other than the fact that one tablet that depicts and names all 13 deities. It depicts 13 humanoids with wings and beaks. These 13 deities are named: Akhuth, D'vah, Gangir, Greh'tir, Iulus, Lilitu, M'khalith, M'keth, Nos'frath, Pjav'kh, Tzimiskh, Utuk'kh, Xot'lth.
    They are no longer around. Even if you'd ask the Strix about them, they'll either say they never heard of them, or that they disappeared after giving birth. A Strix giving birth... what does that mean?
    This is also entirely functional myth. And since it looks like you're also mashing up WoD cosmology (as I am, too, to conserve NPCs), it's a good idea I may borrow.

    Was there a First City? Who can tell now? In my arc Lilith sketches the Yellow Sign upon doomed, bright Valusia, and its drowning in the Doggerland to wreck her plans may have been the best and worst thing to happen to the world since the Fall of Atlantis. Perhaps these 13 Strix were the first to fly free, flapping desperately from the Abyss as the Seers call cleanup on aisle three! Heck, I've even got a Caine figure in the form of Fintan--studying the cursed blood the visitors brought from the future....

    Who said you have to choose between having and eating your legendary cake?

    --Khanwulf

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post

    I love this so much. We could have had lives and bodies and you (PCs) ruined it for all of us.
    Ayup. The PCs would like to have ordinary "lives". The players and I both work very hard against that, by mutual agreement. The PCs think they're working to stop a future apocalypse. In the meantime they'll be oh so responsible for what's wrong with the world. Vampires ruin everything.


    Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post
    That's interesting. Would you run a "Careful Predator" (or whatever it's called) as just a Draugr with high willpower?
    Let's call it what the Owls would: a "Perfect Predator". One unburdened by the chains that hold it back. Powerful. Free. Utterly inhuman. An offspring any murderbird would be proud to own. To wear, even, when the mood strikes.

    Mechanically you could do it with a Draugr with high willpower. And maybe a nod toward permitting unrestricted use of Disciplines and Devotions. Just... with some very specific motivations at work that only passingly resemble anything in the same postal code as self-control. And that only when the merits of waiting are greater than acting.

    --Khanwulf

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  • Ventrue Life
    replied
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
    I'm toying with my own ideas for the strix, and may or may not implement them. A few setup points, some of which I'm working toward in play:

    1. I'm doing weird time-jumps based on an (unwritten, NPC) ritual that flings the mind and soul shaman-style backwards in time, using blood from a person of that period as the homing beacon.
    2. Lilith is literally a queen from alien Carcosa, prior to its fall to the King.
    3. Lilith's people died thanks to the King in Yellow in an incident that brought her to Earth. (Thanks, PCs!)
    4. Lilith is furiously devoted to being free of constraints and able to do whatever the F' she wants, whenever.
    5. She's also a queen, and attempts through mass human sacrifice (in ancient, Pangaean times) to pull "her" alien people through to inhabit [part of, at first] the Earth. It fails, partly, (thanks PCs!) and the spirits of "her people" end up in the shadowed underworld, taking on it's characteristics and becoming the Strix.

    Thus, the Strix were people, of a sort; they just never were human, don't have the same perspectives, and are totally broken.

    To me, the frenzied aspects of the Beast are as much a factor of its interaction with humanity as it is something inherent. In other words, if you totally embraced the Beast you'd be fine.... er, well, in "frenzy" all the time, but riding the wave and capable of mentally guiding things all right in your zero Humanity state. More or less. Its the fact that vamps struggle and wreck what should be a perfectly good gift that's so annoying to the Strix. That and how things have not worked out the way they intended.

    --Khanwulf

    I like it.

    In my game, I decided that in ancient times, 13 extremely powerful Strix were worshipped as deities by various death cultists at various points in time. These Strix seemed to believe that the faith of these cultists is what spawned them in the first place, and it's their fault that they are trapped in our world now. Is that true though? Who knows. There is no evidence left that these 13 deities were ever Strix, other than the fact that one tablet that depicts and names all 13 deities. It depicts 13 humanoids with wings and beaks. These 13 deities are named: Akhuth, D'vah, Gangir, Greh'tir, Iulus, Lilitu, M'khalith, M'keth, Nos'frath, Pjav'kh, Tzimiskh, Utuk'kh, Xot'lth.
    They are no longer around. Even if you'd ask the Strix about them, they'll either say they never heard of them, or that they disappeared after giving birth. A Strix giving birth... what does that mean?

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  • DubiousRuffian
    replied
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
    Thus, the Strix were people, of a sort; they just never were human, don't have the same perspectives, and are totally broken.
    I love this so much. We could have had lives and bodies and you (PCs) ruined it for all of us.


    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
    To me, the frenzied aspects of the Beast are as much a factor of its interaction with humanity as it is something inherent. In other words, if you totally embraced the Beast you'd be fine.... er, well, in "frenzy" all the time, but riding the wave and capable of mentally guiding things all right in your zero Humanity state.
    --Khanwulf
    That's interesting. Would you run a "Careful Predator" (or whatever it's called) as just a Draugr with high willpower?
    Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 02-26-2019, 12:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    I'm toying with my own ideas for the strix, and may or may not implement them. A few setup points, some of which I'm working toward in play:

    1. I'm doing weird time-jumps based on an (unwritten, NPC) ritual that flings the mind and soul shaman-style backwards in time, using blood from a person of that period as the homing beacon.
    2. Lilith is literally a queen from alien Carcosa, prior to its fall to the King.
    3. Lilith's people died thanks to the King in Yellow in an incident that brought her to Earth. (Thanks, PCs!)
    4. Lilith is furiously devoted to being free of constraints and able to do whatever the F' she wants, whenever.
    5. She's also a queen, and attempts through mass human sacrifice (in ancient, Pangaean times) to pull "her" alien people through to inhabit [part of, at first] the Earth. It fails, partly, (thanks PCs!) and the spirits of "her people" end up in the shadowed underworld, taking on it's characteristics and becoming the Strix.

    Thus, the Strix were people, of a sort; they just never were human, don't have the same perspectives, and are totally broken.

    To me, the frenzied aspects of the Beast are as much a factor of its interaction with humanity as it is something inherent. In other words, if you totally embraced the Beast you'd be fine.... er, well, in "frenzy" all the time, but riding the wave and capable of mentally guiding things all right in your zero Humanity state. More or less. Its the fact that vamps struggle and wreck what should be a perfectly good gift that's so annoying to the Strix. That and how things have not worked out the way they intended.

    --Khanwulf

    Leave a comment:


  • DubiousRuffian
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael View Post

    I literally quoted the passage on the last page.
    Welp, that's what I get for skimming. Sorry.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ventrue Life
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

    Shouldn't that make Belial's Brood and Strix natural allies? Brood is all about revaling in Beast, Strix want's vampires to dwell into Beast. Looks like Brood is doing what Strix wants, to me.
    Indeed, and in the game I'm running, they are. I decided that in my game, Belial, the original guy the Brood is named after, wasn't some kind of infernal demon, but instead a vampire who pledged his allegiance to the Strix. He had completely forsaken his own Humanity and was rewarded handsomely for it. When Belial hit 0 Humanity, he did not become a mindless draugr, but instead he became a cunning, sly, demonic entity, not unlike the Strix themselves. He became one of the most fearsome vampires of all time, and spawned several cults worshiping him, later known as Belial's Brood.

    Based on this write up, it seems the writers at Onyx Path might have similar ideas for the 2e incarnation of Belial's Brood.


    Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post

    I think it works as a good motivation for some of the Strix. A lot of them hate vampires in a way that seems really personal -- having their gift be rejected is a good reason for that. I think that the Strix feeling some sense of betrayal makes a lot of sense.

    But I'm not sure that it works for all Strix, nor for all Strix-Kindred antagonism. The Nosferatu and Mekhet origin myths make no reference to Strix. And the core book mentions that the Strix are cold and not subject to any frenzy. The Ventru clanbook implies that the Strix are in fact the seventh clan of vampires. The Gangrel clanbook (and the core) both say something about the Strix and Gangrel being siblings of some sort.

    Personally, I really like the idea that they are all completely different types of things, and the origin they all have in common is (lowercase 'h') humanity. The reason they are similar is that this is what happens when you do something to humans.

    A lot of cultures have versions of vampires, and they usually were evil or blasphemous in some way, which jives with what the corebook says about spontaneous embraces. So my pet theory is that each type of vampire originates from people doing something horrible. It is called 'the curse', after all.
    • Daeva origin myth has a witch who stole her magic from screech owls, who performs a blasphemy for which she is killed, then she is resurrected wanting.
    • The Gangrel went outside of civilization and did a terrible thing for power -- Ventru say bestiality, corebook suggests killing a child -- then the Earth somehow consumes and spits them back out.
    • The Nosferatu were already vampires -- maybe revenants -- who consumed something they should not have.
    • The Ventru also may have already been vampires of a kind, who performed some sort of betrayal and were cursed for it.
    • The Mekhet are a weak point in all this, but then they would keep their secrets, wouldn't they.

    Absolutely on point. I personally like the idea of the Strix being involved in some way or form with the creation of every clan, but I admit that if we take the clan's origin myths at face value, some of them don't seem to be related to the Strix at all, while others very strongly hint at Strix involvement.

    Keep in mind that the Ventrue are most likely the offspring of the Julii in some way, shape or form. So if my theory is correct, the Ventrue don't necessarily find their origin in the Strix, because they find their origin in the Julii, who find their origin in the Strix.

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  • DubiousRuffian
    replied
    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post

    I don't see that as a complication, but more so as a confirmation. It (very roughly) matches the story from The Wicked Dead, where the striges also didn't bargain with the begging man, but instead soothed him before they enter him and gave their Beast to him, as their fucked up idea of a gift.

    The Strix quite literally seem to think that giving the Kindred their Beast is a gift, something they should be happy about, something they should be grateful for. It's why they are so pissed off that the Kindred rebel against the Beast, trying to keep it under wraps to more easily blend in with human society, trying to keep their Beast tamed as they cling to their Humanity. It annoys the Strix a great deal that the Kindred squander the gift they're given.
    I think it works as a good motivation for some of the Strix. A lot of them hate vampires in a way that seems really personal -- having their gift be rejected is a good reason for that. I think that the Strix feeling some sense of betrayal makes a lot of sense.

    But I'm not sure that it works for all Strix, nor for all Strix-Kindred antagonism. The Nosferatu and Mekhet origin myths make no reference to Strix. And the core book mentions that the Strix are cold and not subject to any frenzy. The Ventru clanbook implies that the Strix are in fact the seventh clan of vampires. The Gangrel clanbook (and the core) both say something about the Strix and Gangrel being siblings of some sort.

    Personally, I really like the idea that they are all completely different types of things, and the origin they all have in common is (lowercase 'h') humanity. The reason they are similar is that this is what happens when you do something to humans.

    A lot of cultures have versions of vampires, and they usually were evil or blasphemous in some way, which jives with what the corebook says about spontaneous embraces. So my pet theory is that each type of vampire originates from people doing something horrible. It is called 'the curse', after all.
    • Daeva origin myth has a witch who stole her magic from screech owls, who performs a blasphemy for which she is killed, then she is resurrected wanting.
    • The Gangrel went outside of civilization and did a terrible thing for power -- Ventru say bestiality, corebook suggests killing a child -- then the Earth somehow consumes and spits them back out.
    • The Nosferatu were already vampires -- maybe revenants -- who consumed something they should not have.
    • The Ventru also may have already been vampires of a kind, who performed some sort of betrayal and were cursed for it.
    • The Mekhet are a weak point in all this, but then they would keep their secrets, wouldn't they.
    Edit:
    To expand on a few points, my sense is that the corebook repeats the term survival so many times, in relation to the Gangrel, that the "sin" they commited was probably cannibalism, and the "power" they gained was surviving.

    Abstracting from the Nosferatu clanbook and the "Once Upon a Midnight Darkly" section of the corebook, you've got A) The Act: a group of people breaking a taboo/performing out of "greed", B) The Dark, and C) The Reveal. The Reveal feels more like a dramatic flourish -- so we are left with some terrible act done in the dark (literally or figuratively. Probably both.)

    The Strix are also somehow related to the Ventru -- maybe as punishment for their original betrayal, but the "Once upon a Midnight Darkly" origin makes me think that they used the Strix to gain power.

    My overall point is that I'd like to think each clan isn't so much a lineage, as a case of "This is what happens to a person who does x." It is interesting that the Daeva, Gangrel, and Nos myths all mention their environments (desert, forest, dark). Most clans also have a reason for the "sin" associated with it which matches the clan's theme (desie/love, survival, personal gain, to know) . Who knows if any of these are relevant ingredients.


    Finally, my personal headcanon is that the Strix are straight up a separate clan of vampires. Somehow, people become Strix. Perhaps an individual person changes into a Strix, or many people give rise to a Strix But at the end of the day, the Owls are made of people.
    Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 02-26-2019, 01:39 PM.

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
    The Strix quite literally seem to think that giving the Kindred their Beast is a gift, something they should be happy about, something they should be grateful for. It's why they are so pissed off that the Kindred rebel against the Beast, trying to keep it under wraps to more easily blend in with human society, trying to keep their Beast tamed as they cling to their Humanity. It annoys the Strix a great deal that the Kindred squander the gift they're given.
    Shouldn't that make Belial's Brood and Strix natural allies? Brood is all about revaling in Beast, Strix want's vampires to dwell into Beast. Looks like Brood is doing what Strix wants, to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ventrue Life
    replied
    Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post
    I just want to point out a further complication in the Founder/Strix-as-origin-of-Beast legend.

    In Requiem for Rome, towards the end of the book, we're told that the Strix in fact never bargained with Remus. It soothed Remus while he died, because the Strix planned to wear him.
    I don't see that as a complication, but more so as a confirmation. It (very roughly) matches the story from The Wicked Dead, where the striges also didn't bargain with the begging man, but instead soothed him before they enter him and gave their Beast to him, as their fucked up idea of a gift.

    The Strix quite literally seem to think that giving the Kindred their Beast is a gift, something they should be happy about, something they should be grateful for. It's why they are so pissed off that the Kindred rebel against the Beast, trying to keep it under wraps to more easily blend in with human society, trying to keep their Beast tamed as they cling to their Humanity. It annoys the Strix a great deal that the Kindred squander the gift they're given.

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  • Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post
    I just want to point out a further complication in the Founder/Strix-as-origin-of-Beast legend.

    In Requiem for Rome, towards the end of the book, we're told that the Strix in fact never bargained with Remus. It soothed Remus while he died, because the Strix planned to wear him.
    I literally quoted the passage on the last page.

    Leave a comment:


  • DubiousRuffian
    replied
    I just want to point out a further complication in the Founder/Strix-as-origin-of-Beast legend.

    In Requiem for Rome, towards the end of the book, we're told that the Strix in fact never bargained with Remus. It soothed Remus while he died, because the Strix planned to wear him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Or, hatred for your own spawn, who do not appreciate your gifts and quickly stray from your control. I mean, it seems mad to give "life" to something that rejects you, but that's essentially the Biblical creation story (as well as the rest of it) AND what parents do all the damn time around the world by having children.

    Mother knows best, right?

    So: we could bifurcate the origins for vampires into several different directions.

    1. Individuals who die and are not properly buried (among other factors), and come back as blood-drinking "monsters" who are, of course, first attracted to their relatives and the village(s) that they know. They lack access to Disciplines, do not have a Beast (so no frenzy, among other things), but do have physical intensity to draw on and perhaps other supernatural merits they may find compatible in a lack-of-Beast situation (as that may be the complicating factor the Coil overcomes). Their greatest challenge is adapting to this existence without losing their mind and self-control (Integrity), avoiding final death, and fending off curious Strix to perceive potential in them. It is unknown if this type can transmit the vampiric condition through contamination, but chances are good they could.

    2. "Kindred" individuals of Type 1 who are "adopted" by one or more Strix and provided dark power over the world. In exchange, they receive a Beast to "guide" them. What the Beast wants is radically opposed to what a human would want, and the dissonance quickly drives such vampires insane. Or, it they overcome the Beast and control it, much to the Strix's anger. The modern clans could each trace their origin back to a single individual or group receiving a gift from a Strix. The vampiric condition AND Beast are spread through contamination, among other means.

    3. "Failed" Kindred--revenants and larva--arising from individuals contaminated by Type 2 vampires. They have a Beast and access to supernatural powers, but it "didn't take" completely and the result is not a balance of body, mind and Beast. They are wildly off-kilter and as such overemphasize one or another aspect of the vampiric condition, to the detriment of other parts in various (even non-intuitive) ways.

    3.A Ghouls may be properly classified as Type 3 vampires, with an imbalance in body and mind depressing the influence of the Beast and thus their supernatural power potential. The root cause of course is the fact that they are alive when contaminated by Vitae. This is a solvable problem.

    3.B Dhampir are, similarly, a variant Type 3 vampire with an excess of body and mind, manifest through will. It is not surprising, given that the conception of Dhampir, which requires the intersection of living and dead in a procreative act empowered by massive application of will--magic, in other words. Their Beast is crushed as a result into an odd form and manifests in different ways. The logical hypothesis is then that by altering the balance within Dhampir their Beast may be freed to more fully express itself and transform the Dhampir into a new and unique form of Type 2 vampire, much as a butterfly emerges from its chrysalis.

    I hope you have enjoyed this abstract, and look forward to a more thorough presentation of underlying research at the symposium.

    --Khanwulf

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  • nofather
    replied
    Strix being progenitors of all the clans kind of puts a more human touch to them, in that it's someone's hate for another creation as jealousy or just hatred that another of your kind made something.

    Would probably be too depressing an angle for me to take though.

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