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  • #61
    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post

    I don't see that as a complication, but more so as a confirmation. It (very roughly) matches the story from The Wicked Dead, where the striges also didn't bargain with the begging man, but instead soothed him before they enter him and gave their Beast to him, as their fucked up idea of a gift.

    The Strix quite literally seem to think that giving the Kindred their Beast is a gift, something they should be happy about, something they should be grateful for. It's why they are so pissed off that the Kindred rebel against the Beast, trying to keep it under wraps to more easily blend in with human society, trying to keep their Beast tamed as they cling to their Humanity. It annoys the Strix a great deal that the Kindred squander the gift they're given.
    I think it works as a good motivation for some of the Strix. A lot of them hate vampires in a way that seems really personal -- having their gift be rejected is a good reason for that. I think that the Strix feeling some sense of betrayal makes a lot of sense.

    But I'm not sure that it works for all Strix, nor for all Strix-Kindred antagonism. The Nosferatu and Mekhet origin myths make no reference to Strix. And the core book mentions that the Strix are cold and not subject to any frenzy. The Ventru clanbook implies that the Strix are in fact the seventh clan of vampires. The Gangrel clanbook (and the core) both say something about the Strix and Gangrel being siblings of some sort.

    Personally, I really like the idea that they are all completely different types of things, and the origin they all have in common is (lowercase 'h') humanity. The reason they are similar is that this is what happens when you do something to humans.

    A lot of cultures have versions of vampires, and they usually were evil or blasphemous in some way, which jives with what the corebook says about spontaneous embraces. So my pet theory is that each type of vampire originates from people doing something horrible. It is called 'the curse', after all.
    • Daeva origin myth has a witch who stole her magic from screech owls, who performs a blasphemy for which she is killed, then she is resurrected wanting.
    • The Gangrel went outside of civilization and did a terrible thing for power -- Ventru say bestiality, corebook suggests killing a child -- then the Earth somehow consumes and spits them back out.
    • The Nosferatu were already vampires -- maybe revenants -- who consumed something they should not have.
    • The Ventru also may have already been vampires of a kind, who performed some sort of betrayal and were cursed for it.
    • The Mekhet are a weak point in all this, but then they would keep their secrets, wouldn't they.
    Edit:
    To expand on a few points, my sense is that the corebook repeats the term survival so many times, in relation to the Gangrel, that the "sin" they commited was probably cannibalism, and the "power" they gained was surviving.

    Abstracting from the Nosferatu clanbook and the "Once Upon a Midnight Darkly" section of the corebook, you've got A) The Act: a group of people breaking a taboo/performing out of "greed", B) The Dark, and C) The Reveal. The Reveal feels more like a dramatic flourish -- so we are left with some terrible act done in the dark (literally or figuratively. Probably both.)

    The Strix are also somehow related to the Ventru -- maybe as punishment for their original betrayal, but the "Once upon a Midnight Darkly" origin makes me think that they used the Strix to gain power.

    My overall point is that I'd like to think each clan isn't so much a lineage, as a case of "This is what happens to a person who does x." It is interesting that the Daeva, Gangrel, and Nos myths all mention their environments (desert, forest, dark). Most clans also have a reason for the "sin" associated with it which matches the clan's theme (desie/love, survival, personal gain, to know) . Who knows if any of these are relevant ingredients.


    Finally, my personal headcanon is that the Strix are straight up a separate clan of vampires. Somehow, people become Strix. Perhaps an individual person changes into a Strix, or many people give rise to a Strix But at the end of the day, the Owls are made of people.
    Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 02-26-2019, 01:39 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

      Shouldn't that make Belial's Brood and Strix natural allies? Brood is all about revaling in Beast, Strix want's vampires to dwell into Beast. Looks like Brood is doing what Strix wants, to me.
      Indeed, and in the game I'm running, they are. I decided that in my game, Belial, the original guy the Brood is named after, wasn't some kind of infernal demon, but instead a vampire who pledged his allegiance to the Strix. He had completely forsaken his own Humanity and was rewarded handsomely for it. When Belial hit 0 Humanity, he did not become a mindless draugr, but instead he became a cunning, sly, demonic entity, not unlike the Strix themselves. He became one of the most fearsome vampires of all time, and spawned several cults worshiping him, later known as Belial's Brood.

      Based on this write up, it seems the writers at Onyx Path might have similar ideas for the 2e incarnation of Belial's Brood.


      Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post

      I think it works as a good motivation for some of the Strix. A lot of them hate vampires in a way that seems really personal -- having their gift be rejected is a good reason for that. I think that the Strix feeling some sense of betrayal makes a lot of sense.

      But I'm not sure that it works for all Strix, nor for all Strix-Kindred antagonism. The Nosferatu and Mekhet origin myths make no reference to Strix. And the core book mentions that the Strix are cold and not subject to any frenzy. The Ventru clanbook implies that the Strix are in fact the seventh clan of vampires. The Gangrel clanbook (and the core) both say something about the Strix and Gangrel being siblings of some sort.

      Personally, I really like the idea that they are all completely different types of things, and the origin they all have in common is (lowercase 'h') humanity. The reason they are similar is that this is what happens when you do something to humans.

      A lot of cultures have versions of vampires, and they usually were evil or blasphemous in some way, which jives with what the corebook says about spontaneous embraces. So my pet theory is that each type of vampire originates from people doing something horrible. It is called 'the curse', after all.
      • Daeva origin myth has a witch who stole her magic from screech owls, who performs a blasphemy for which she is killed, then she is resurrected wanting.
      • The Gangrel went outside of civilization and did a terrible thing for power -- Ventru say bestiality, corebook suggests killing a child -- then the Earth somehow consumes and spits them back out.
      • The Nosferatu were already vampires -- maybe revenants -- who consumed something they should not have.
      • The Ventru also may have already been vampires of a kind, who performed some sort of betrayal and were cursed for it.
      • The Mekhet are a weak point in all this, but then they would keep their secrets, wouldn't they.

      Absolutely on point. I personally like the idea of the Strix being involved in some way or form with the creation of every clan, but I admit that if we take the clan's origin myths at face value, some of them don't seem to be related to the Strix at all, while others very strongly hint at Strix involvement.

      Keep in mind that the Ventrue are most likely the offspring of the Julii in some way, shape or form. So if my theory is correct, the Ventrue don't necessarily find their origin in the Strix, because they find their origin in the Julii, who find their origin in the Strix.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Michael View Post

        I literally quoted the passage on the last page.
        Welp, that's what I get for skimming. Sorry.

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        • #64
          I'm toying with my own ideas for the strix, and may or may not implement them. A few setup points, some of which I'm working toward in play:

          1. I'm doing weird time-jumps based on an (unwritten, NPC) ritual that flings the mind and soul shaman-style backwards in time, using blood from a person of that period as the homing beacon.
          2. Lilith is literally a queen from alien Carcosa, prior to its fall to the King.
          3. Lilith's people died thanks to the King in Yellow in an incident that brought her to Earth. (Thanks, PCs!)
          4. Lilith is furiously devoted to being free of constraints and able to do whatever the F' she wants, whenever.
          5. She's also a queen, and attempts through mass human sacrifice (in ancient, Pangaean times) to pull "her" alien people through to inhabit [part of, at first] the Earth. It fails, partly, (thanks PCs!) and the spirits of "her people" end up in the shadowed underworld, taking on it's characteristics and becoming the Strix.

          Thus, the Strix were people, of a sort; they just never were human, don't have the same perspectives, and are totally broken.

          To me, the frenzied aspects of the Beast are as much a factor of its interaction with humanity as it is something inherent. In other words, if you totally embraced the Beast you'd be fine.... er, well, in "frenzy" all the time, but riding the wave and capable of mentally guiding things all right in your zero Humanity state. More or less. Its the fact that vamps struggle and wreck what should be a perfectly good gift that's so annoying to the Strix. That and how things have not worked out the way they intended.

          --Khanwulf

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
            Thus, the Strix were people, of a sort; they just never were human, don't have the same perspectives, and are totally broken.
            I love this so much. We could have had lives and bodies and you (PCs) ruined it for all of us.


            Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
            To me, the frenzied aspects of the Beast are as much a factor of its interaction with humanity as it is something inherent. In other words, if you totally embraced the Beast you'd be fine.... er, well, in "frenzy" all the time, but riding the wave and capable of mentally guiding things all right in your zero Humanity state.
            --Khanwulf
            That's interesting. Would you run a "Careful Predator" (or whatever it's called) as just a Draugr with high willpower?
            Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 02-26-2019, 12:08 PM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
              I'm toying with my own ideas for the strix, and may or may not implement them. A few setup points, some of which I'm working toward in play:

              1. I'm doing weird time-jumps based on an (unwritten, NPC) ritual that flings the mind and soul shaman-style backwards in time, using blood from a person of that period as the homing beacon.
              2. Lilith is literally a queen from alien Carcosa, prior to its fall to the King.
              3. Lilith's people died thanks to the King in Yellow in an incident that brought her to Earth. (Thanks, PCs!)
              4. Lilith is furiously devoted to being free of constraints and able to do whatever the F' she wants, whenever.
              5. She's also a queen, and attempts through mass human sacrifice (in ancient, Pangaean times) to pull "her" alien people through to inhabit [part of, at first] the Earth. It fails, partly, (thanks PCs!) and the spirits of "her people" end up in the shadowed underworld, taking on it's characteristics and becoming the Strix.

              Thus, the Strix were people, of a sort; they just never were human, don't have the same perspectives, and are totally broken.

              To me, the frenzied aspects of the Beast are as much a factor of its interaction with humanity as it is something inherent. In other words, if you totally embraced the Beast you'd be fine.... er, well, in "frenzy" all the time, but riding the wave and capable of mentally guiding things all right in your zero Humanity state. More or less. Its the fact that vamps struggle and wreck what should be a perfectly good gift that's so annoying to the Strix. That and how things have not worked out the way they intended.

              --Khanwulf

              I like it.

              In my game, I decided that in ancient times, 13 extremely powerful Strix were worshipped as deities by various death cultists at various points in time. These Strix seemed to believe that the faith of these cultists is what spawned them in the first place, and it's their fault that they are trapped in our world now. Is that true though? Who knows. There is no evidence left that these 13 deities were ever Strix, other than the fact that one tablet that depicts and names all 13 deities. It depicts 13 humanoids with wings and beaks. These 13 deities are named: Akhuth, D'vah, Gangir, Greh'tir, Iulus, Lilitu, M'khalith, M'keth, Nos'frath, Pjav'kh, Tzimiskh, Utuk'kh, Xot'lth.
              They are no longer around. Even if you'd ask the Strix about them, they'll either say they never heard of them, or that they disappeared after giving birth. A Strix giving birth... what does that mean?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post

                I love this so much. We could have had lives and bodies and you (PCs) ruined it for all of us.
                Ayup. The PCs would like to have ordinary "lives". The players and I both work very hard against that, by mutual agreement. The PCs think they're working to stop a future apocalypse. In the meantime they'll be oh so responsible for what's wrong with the world. Vampires ruin everything.


                Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post
                That's interesting. Would you run a "Careful Predator" (or whatever it's called) as just a Draugr with high willpower?
                Let's call it what the Owls would: a "Perfect Predator". One unburdened by the chains that hold it back. Powerful. Free. Utterly inhuman. An offspring any murderbird would be proud to own. To wear, even, when the mood strikes.

                Mechanically you could do it with a Draugr with high willpower. And maybe a nod toward permitting unrestricted use of Disciplines and Devotions. Just... with some very specific motivations at work that only passingly resemble anything in the same postal code as self-control. And that only when the merits of waiting are greater than acting.

                --Khanwulf

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
                  I like it.
                  Thanks! It rhymes, so should work alright. There's also a kind of incestuous connection to the story of Lilith, Inanna and the Strix in the Daeva book. And it's all vague enough that nothing about what really happened has to be explained at once. Just later, when researching the Strix.

                  Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
                  In my game, I decided that in ancient times, 13 extremely powerful Strix were worshipped as deities by various death cultists at various points in time. These Strix seemed to believe that the faith of these cultists is what spawned them in the first place, and it's their fault that they are trapped in our world now. Is that true though? Who knows. There is no evidence left that these 13 deities were ever Strix, other than the fact that one tablet that depicts and names all 13 deities. It depicts 13 humanoids with wings and beaks. These 13 deities are named: Akhuth, D'vah, Gangir, Greh'tir, Iulus, Lilitu, M'khalith, M'keth, Nos'frath, Pjav'kh, Tzimiskh, Utuk'kh, Xot'lth.
                  They are no longer around. Even if you'd ask the Strix about them, they'll either say they never heard of them, or that they disappeared after giving birth. A Strix giving birth... what does that mean?
                  This is also entirely functional myth. And since it looks like you're also mashing up WoD cosmology (as I am, too, to conserve NPCs), it's a good idea I may borrow.

                  Was there a First City? Who can tell now? In my arc Lilith sketches the Yellow Sign upon doomed, bright Valusia, and its drowning in the Doggerland to wreck her plans may have been the best and worst thing to happen to the world since the Fall of Atlantis. Perhaps these 13 Strix were the first to fly free, flapping desperately from the Abyss as the Seers call cleanup on aisle three! Heck, I've even got a Caine figure in the form of Fintan--studying the cursed blood the visitors brought from the future....

                  Who said you have to choose between having and eating your legendary cake?

                  --Khanwulf

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

                    Thanks! It rhymes, so should work alright. There's also a kind of incestuous connection to the story of Lilith, Inanna and the Strix in the Daeva book. And it's all vague enough that nothing about what really happened has to be explained at once. Just later, when researching the Strix.



                    This is also entirely functional myth. And since it looks like you're also mashing up WoD cosmology (as I am, too, to conserve NPCs), it's a good idea I may borrow.

                    Was there a First City? Who can tell now? In my arc Lilith sketches the Yellow Sign upon doomed, bright Valusia, and its drowning in the Doggerland to wreck her plans may have been the best and worst thing to happen to the world since the Fall of Atlantis. Perhaps these 13 Strix were the first to fly free, flapping desperately from the Abyss as the Seers call cleanup on aisle three! Heck, I've even got a Caine figure in the form of Fintan--studying the cursed blood the visitors brought from the future....

                    Who said you have to choose between having and eating your legendary cake?

                    --Khanwulf
                    I stuck to the number 13 because it's the number of misfortune in most cultures, and yes, because in Vampire the Masquerade there were 13 Antediluvians. It's a nod to VtM for sure, but I try to keep my Requiem game an actual Requiem game, so while I like to throw the occasional nod to Masquerade in my Requiem game, it will never be more than just a nod or a reference. So no, Caine and no First City in my Requiem game.

                    That being said, I did homebrew the Malkavians into my Requiem game, as a Ventrue bloodline (like the 1e Malkovian bloodline, but much closer to the VtM Malkavians), which you can find here, and I'm currently homebrewing the Tzimisce as "lost clan" with strong ties to Dracula and the Ordo Dracul, which you can find here. So maybe I'm throwing more Masquerade into my Requiem game than I'd like to admit.

                    While I like how easy it is to do cross-splat in Chronicles of Darkness, I do try to steer clear from mixing the splat's mythologies. I personally avoid Atlantis and the Exarchs like the plague in my Requiem game. I like to keep my games "pure", with my vampire game actually focusing on vampire stuff, with the other splats being unknown factors. They exist, but they exist in the background.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                      Shouldn't that make Belial's Brood and Strix natural allies? Brood is all about reveling in Beast, Strix want's vampires to dwell into Beast. Looks like Brood is doing what Strix wants, to me.
                      Definitely. I'd say the only reason that would be awkward is that Belial's Brood worship demons. The Strix might be offended by this behavior.

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                      • #71
                        One thing to note is that the Strix think draugrs are still kind of pansy for clinging to the human form, and their possession of it is just as much to reveal flesh's failings as to enjoy it.

                        Considering the Brood seem to still be able to play in the Kindred's courts, I would take that as a sign it's not an open and shut case how and what Strix/Brood relationships look like(though we don't know enough about the Brood to really answer that yet.)


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post

                          I stuck to the number 13 because it's the number of misfortune in most cultures, and yes, because in Vampire the Masquerade there were 13 Antediluvians. It's a nod to VtM for sure, but I try to keep my Requiem game an actual Requiem game, so while I like to throw the occasional nod to Masquerade in my Requiem game, it will never be more than just a nod or a reference. So no, Caine and no First City in my Requiem game.

                          <snip> So maybe I'm throwing more Masquerade into my Requiem game than I'd like to admit.

                          While I like how easy it is to do cross-splat in Chronicles of Darkness, I do try to steer clear from mixing the splat's mythologies. I personally avoid Atlantis and the Exarchs like the plague in my Requiem game. I like to keep my games "pure", with my vampire game actually focusing on vampire stuff, with the other splats being unknown factors. They exist, but they exist in the background.
                          Fair all around. Personally I don't have a problem with VtM's setting and characters except when they're trying to tell me what to do, instead of serving as useful tools for my story. VtR to me is a well-tuned engine to pull my metaplot for the benefit of the story with my players.

                          I mean, VtM built out the vampire mythology that VtR extensively draws on. You can't use the same tropes without stepping in its footprints to some extent, so why twist up to avoid it?

                          Similarly, the threat of the Other in the CofD is always handy to wave at players and their PCs who think they have everything figured out. Mage literally gives me a headache whenever I've tried to work with it, but the theme of Exarchs wrecking inconvenient past history is quite core and if I'm going to be doing some from of time travel to show the world in more personal detail, it has to be dealt with. Or at least that's what my sense of order tells me. Beyond that? Other supernaturals can play inside their fenced yards and interact only when I need them to.

                          ArcaneArts maybe the Strix expected their gifts to cause a proper metamorphosis into beings like them? They pushed the fledglings out of the metaphorical nest, and now they won't fly! Boo! Who's responsible? Not them! It's these failed and despicable creatures! Two-minute hate!

                          But then. Maybe some of them do learn to fly. Maybe that's where some of the more... human-like Strix come from, eh?

                          And the Brood may have a relationship with a Strix or two, but probably not with all of them in some formal way. Strix just aren't like that.

                          --Khanwulf

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                          • #73
                            Oh undoubtedly.


                            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                            Comment


                            • #74

                              Perhaps Kindred began as little more than Strix who possessed a corpse and got stuck(as the vampire scares of old). At some point the Strix realized it had the power to directly infect fresh corpses and now the Beast and favored Disciplines are little more than echoes of that distant progenitor and it's cursed depravities.

                              We know that many diseases eventually jump species when the right mutations present themselves for infection of a new host. Perhaps Revenanthood began elsewhere then jumped to humans before finally evolving the virulence to infect the majority of the human population. Rabies is a disease which seems to be able to lie dormant in some populations, yet when unleashed on a vulnerable host it modifies the hosts behavior to increase it's own chance of spreading (then inevitably driving the host completely insane and killing it).

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Rathamus View Post
                                We know that many diseases eventually jump species when the right mutations present themselves for infection of a new host. Perhaps Revenanthood began elsewhere then jumped to humans before finally evolving the virulence to infect the majority of the human population. Rabies is a disease which seems to be able to lie dormant in some populations, yet when unleashed on a vulnerable host it modifies the hosts behavior to increase it's own chance of spreading (then inevitably driving the host completely insane and killing it).
                                Oh, I like this: what if correlation does not equal causation? What if the nature of the fully-fledged vampiric form is a convergence of virulence and not an origin?

                                What if you put together:

                                a. Hungry risen dead. (Sustained by blood. Sleeps in day.)
                                b. Blood-borne hyper-human predation virus. (Concentrates and optimizes the host physically using ingested blood. Ejects contaminated "vitae" regularly.)
                                c. Strix-injected pseudo-spiritual savage nature. (Empowers the predatory aura and enables 'magic'- including ghouling and reproduction by force of will. Repelled by fire.)

                                And you got vampire. A stable reaction that swaps the involuntary infection vector adaptation (underlined) for a voluntary infection vector and enough self-control to avoid slaying prey out of hand, and thus potentially affecting more victims with contamination. It's occurred in more natural forms, before: the Black Death apparently mutated until it became less virulent and the human hosts overcame it through their own containment measures and immune responses.

                                One wonders if the desire to ghoul and to bring forth new progeny might be tied to the influence of one or more of these factors, and less that of the willful mind of the, ehem, "host."

                                Please await my fully analysis and presentation at an upcoming symposium. I beg your indulgence as of course no clear estimate of timing can be made just yet.

                                --Khanwulf

                                Stapled Addendum
                                Bartholomeus:
                                This partially charred and damaged excerpt of Dr. Khanwulf's was recovered from a scavenger while I followed up on his whereabouts. I'm still on the hunt for those who burned out his haven and left him to be so precariously recovered from atop that flagpole, but am beginning to wonder if the search should include members of the Ordo as well. --J

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