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  • Ratet
    started a topic First Vampires

    First Vampires

    Do we know when Vampires first start appearing? Like when is the earliest record and when is the possible timeframe of first Vampires? I cant find anything saying what for sure caused them so is it up to me why they exist at all? Or did I miss something?

  • Tessie
    replied
    Not really. I tried to signal that I wouldn't continue.

    As for Daeva and Ventrue, I wouldn't expect a militarised and crazed cult of Hunters to have any insight into the details of Kindred society and metaphysics. Especially not since those two Clans are superficially similar in their trademark powers, and neither has a particularly obvious Clan Bane. Hell, many Ventrue doesn't even realise that they have a Clan Bane.
    Edit: The more interesting thing would be the absence of a Mekhet progenitor as the Mother is quite clearly Strix (which even further cements that they don't know what they speak of as they don't even recognise Strix). Someone said earlier that they didn't see any connection between Strix and Mekhet, but there is an interesting fiction in their Clan book that suggests differently.
    Last edited by Tessie; 03-02-2019, 09:59 PM.

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  • Spectre9924
    replied
    Is this now an rp?

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  • Ventrue Life
    replied
    "But Sir... the Serpents and the Lords have nothing in common? With all due respect Sir, but the comparison you drew between the Ventrue and Serpents is superficial and shoddy at best. The Lords claim direct dominion over the minds of animals and men alike, and are exceptionally resilient, while the Serpents tempt their human targets into sin and debauchery, but hold no claim over the animal kingdom, and they lack the resilience of the Lords, but make up for their lack of resilience with extraordinary strength and speed. How could these two vastly different clans possibly be related, Sir? Wouldn't it be more logical to assume the Lords are related to the Hunters, who also hold dominion over the animal kingdom and show exceptional resilience? Could it be that the Lords are the evolved form of the Hunters? Could the Hunters be devolved Lords who's Beasts have taken a stronger hold over their higher faculties?"
    Last edited by Ventrue Life; 03-02-2019, 03:38 PM.

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  • Tessie
    replied
    "As I said, it's not a perfect match. The unaccounted for clan, Ventrue as they're known amongst their own cursed kind, is probably merely a variation of one of the other clans. Head Librarian Ryan proposed that the fifth clan was a European offshoot of the Babylonian devils due to the ease with which they both bend the minds of the Lord's children. They also seem to fulfil the same niche as leaders in their wretched societies. In the end the Council assigned both variations to the Serpent Class, which you should've been familiarised with during boot camp. And that's it for now. The mess should've opened by now so get out of here, Private."

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    "Sir-- you mentioned four progenitors... but these cursed cling to five clans. Do we have any idea where the fifth came from?"

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  • Tessie
    replied
    "Excuse me, Chapter Master, I know this isn't exactly necessary to know to carry out our mission, but I can't help but wonder how these wretched things first came to be? As you've told us they spread by passing on their curse to others. If so, who was the first to be cursed?"


    "Private Sullivan, is it? The answer is found in the transcribed visions of the great Prophet-General, blessed be her name. In the scriptures four such beings, progenitors if you'd like, are described. The first was the Hunter. With nothing but a stone knife he killed prey after prey, losing more and more of himself in the thrill of the kill. The Hunter's lust for blood became so extreme that the Lord himself cursed him and reduced him to a savage predator, more beast than man.
    Some of our scholars believe the vision to be a metaphor for the first murder of another human being, which would make our Hunter the biblical Cain. Of course, that's only speculation and the scholars are far from reaching a consensus on the subject. Regardless, the Hunter is a good reminder that we are not to lose ourselves in our holy mission lest we devolve into their sorry state.

    The second is the Outcast. He was a man who was exiled from his settlement for made up reasons just because the others didn't want him, but that does not excuse his actions. After each break of dawn he snuck into the village and into the huts of his former peers, assaulting them in their sleep and dragging their children into the night. The villagers put out guards, but the Outcast evaded them as they weren't there. For this the Outcast was cursed to haunt the earth, always shunned by humanity. I would not be surprised if the stolen children ended up as the vector of this curse, though horrible it might seem.
    It only goes to show that we are not to turn our backs on each other, but neither does it mean we can relax. We can never know whether one of the Outcast's descendents will attempt to sneak past our watchful eyes. Remember that next time you have guard duty!

    The third was the Depraved. She was wanton and gluttonous, carrying an endless desire for anything she didn't already own or hadn't already experienced. The trade routes allowed her to adorn herself with metals and precious stones from far away lands in a display of excess that not even our modern, materialistic world can't match. Of course, her decadence didn't stop there. With time her tastes and desires grew more and more debased and bizarre. I'll spare you the details, but she certainly lived up to the name she's now know as. Anyway, her final acts of depravity came when she willingly drank the blood of her fellow humans, and she was cursed to forever be bound and addicted to blood.
    Some have drawn parallells between the Depraved and the whore of Babylon from Revelations, but that requires more squinting than seeing the Hunter as Caine. The whore of Babylon is generally believed to be a metaphor for something else, and even if that's not true, the scriptures heavily imply that the Depraved held a royal position. I mean, how else would she be able to afford her ever growing opulent appetites? But I digress. The lessen to take is the importance of moderation and discipline! We provide you with everything you need, from food to quarters to education, and any material things you receive from other sources would be excess and thus serve you better by funding our holy mission. Remember that the next time you get a chance to donate to the collection plate!

    Where were we... Oh, yeah, the fourth and final progenitor. This one we don't know much of at all, to be honest. The scriptures, holy as they are, can be quite difficult to interpret even for the most learned of us. Unlike the others she's primarily described after she was cursed by our Lord, rather than before. In fact, we don't even know why she's cursed, only that she was imprisoned in a cage of fire and that she birthed, metaphorically speaking, a number of shadows that swept the lands, bringing chaos wherever they went.
    Unfortunately this is where the scriptures end. It was the Lord's will to return the Prophet-General to His embrace in that very moment. Whatever else her holy visions might've revealed was simply not meant for us.

    If you've been attentive during my lectures you should realise that these curses are shared by all of their descendents, but field research has shown that the targets classify themselves in similar categories, each embodying one aspect more than the others. It's not a perfect match with five so called clans, but neither do the cursed know of their own origins so misconceptions about their own forsaken nature is not surprising.
    Any further questions, Private?"
    Last edited by Tessie; 02-28-2019, 05:59 PM.

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

    And now I wait for Contagion Chronicle to see how this works with all this theory together, in one, uberVirus for CoD universe!
    One phage to rule them all
    One phage to find them
    One phage to lure them all
    And in the Darkness bind them

    Edit: On the Onyx Path, where the Shadows fly
    Last edited by Khanwulf; 02-28-2019, 04:43 PM. Reason: Sympathy for Mordor

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  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
    Dr. Khanwulf's virular explanation of vampirism...
    And now I wait for Contagion Chronicle to see how this works with all this theory together, in one, uberVirus for CoD universe!

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Rathamus View Post
    We know that many diseases eventually jump species when the right mutations present themselves for infection of a new host. Perhaps Revenanthood began elsewhere then jumped to humans before finally evolving the virulence to infect the majority of the human population. Rabies is a disease which seems to be able to lie dormant in some populations, yet when unleashed on a vulnerable host it modifies the hosts behavior to increase it's own chance of spreading (then inevitably driving the host completely insane and killing it).
    Oh, I like this: what if correlation does not equal causation? What if the nature of the fully-fledged vampiric form is a convergence of virulence and not an origin?

    What if you put together:

    a. Hungry risen dead. (Sustained by blood. Sleeps in day.)
    b. Blood-borne hyper-human predation virus. (Concentrates and optimizes the host physically using ingested blood. Ejects contaminated "vitae" regularly.)
    c. Strix-injected pseudo-spiritual savage nature. (Empowers the predatory aura and enables 'magic'- including ghouling and reproduction by force of will. Repelled by fire.)

    And you got vampire. A stable reaction that swaps the involuntary infection vector adaptation (underlined) for a voluntary infection vector and enough self-control to avoid slaying prey out of hand, and thus potentially affecting more victims with contamination. It's occurred in more natural forms, before: the Black Death apparently mutated until it became less virulent and the human hosts overcame it through their own containment measures and immune responses.

    One wonders if the desire to ghoul and to bring forth new progeny might be tied to the influence of one or more of these factors, and less that of the willful mind of the, ehem, "host."

    Please await my fully analysis and presentation at an upcoming symposium. I beg your indulgence as of course no clear estimate of timing can be made just yet.

    --Khanwulf

    Stapled Addendum
    Bartholomeus:
    This partially charred and damaged excerpt of Dr. Khanwulf's was recovered from a scavenger while I followed up on his whereabouts. I'm still on the hunt for those who burned out his haven and left him to be so precariously recovered from atop that flagpole, but am beginning to wonder if the search should include members of the Ordo as well. --J

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  • Rathamus
    replied

    Perhaps Kindred began as little more than Strix who possessed a corpse and got stuck(as the vampire scares of old). At some point the Strix realized it had the power to directly infect fresh corpses and now the Beast and favored Disciplines are little more than echoes of that distant progenitor and it's cursed depravities.

    We know that many diseases eventually jump species when the right mutations present themselves for infection of a new host. Perhaps Revenanthood began elsewhere then jumped to humans before finally evolving the virulence to infect the majority of the human population. Rabies is a disease which seems to be able to lie dormant in some populations, yet when unleashed on a vulnerable host it modifies the hosts behavior to increase it's own chance of spreading (then inevitably driving the host completely insane and killing it).

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Oh undoubtedly.

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post

    I stuck to the number 13 because it's the number of misfortune in most cultures, and yes, because in Vampire the Masquerade there were 13 Antediluvians. It's a nod to VtM for sure, but I try to keep my Requiem game an actual Requiem game, so while I like to throw the occasional nod to Masquerade in my Requiem game, it will never be more than just a nod or a reference. So no, Caine and no First City in my Requiem game.

    <snip> So maybe I'm throwing more Masquerade into my Requiem game than I'd like to admit.

    While I like how easy it is to do cross-splat in Chronicles of Darkness, I do try to steer clear from mixing the splat's mythologies. I personally avoid Atlantis and the Exarchs like the plague in my Requiem game. I like to keep my games "pure", with my vampire game actually focusing on vampire stuff, with the other splats being unknown factors. They exist, but they exist in the background.
    Fair all around. Personally I don't have a problem with VtM's setting and characters except when they're trying to tell me what to do, instead of serving as useful tools for my story. VtR to me is a well-tuned engine to pull my metaplot for the benefit of the story with my players.

    I mean, VtM built out the vampire mythology that VtR extensively draws on. You can't use the same tropes without stepping in its footprints to some extent, so why twist up to avoid it?

    Similarly, the threat of the Other in the CofD is always handy to wave at players and their PCs who think they have everything figured out. Mage literally gives me a headache whenever I've tried to work with it, but the theme of Exarchs wrecking inconvenient past history is quite core and if I'm going to be doing some from of time travel to show the world in more personal detail, it has to be dealt with. Or at least that's what my sense of order tells me. Beyond that? Other supernaturals can play inside their fenced yards and interact only when I need them to.

    ArcaneArts maybe the Strix expected their gifts to cause a proper metamorphosis into beings like them? They pushed the fledglings out of the metaphorical nest, and now they won't fly! Boo! Who's responsible? Not them! It's these failed and despicable creatures! Two-minute hate!

    But then. Maybe some of them do learn to fly. Maybe that's where some of the more... human-like Strix come from, eh?

    And the Brood may have a relationship with a Strix or two, but probably not with all of them in some formal way. Strix just aren't like that.

    --Khanwulf

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    One thing to note is that the Strix think draugrs are still kind of pansy for clinging to the human form, and their possession of it is just as much to reveal flesh's failings as to enjoy it.

    Considering the Brood seem to still be able to play in the Kindred's courts, I would take that as a sign it's not an open and shut case how and what Strix/Brood relationships look like(though we don't know enough about the Brood to really answer that yet.)

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  • Spectre9924
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

    Shouldn't that make Belial's Brood and Strix natural allies? Brood is all about reveling in Beast, Strix want's vampires to dwell into Beast. Looks like Brood is doing what Strix wants, to me.
    Definitely. I'd say the only reason that would be awkward is that Belial's Brood worship demons. The Strix might be offended by this behavior.

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