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Are hormuniculli and Gargoyles still a thing in in 2nd edition?

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  • Are hormuniculli and Gargoyles still a thing in in 2nd edition?

    Would like to know. if so any ideas how to convert them? I find them VERY cool as concepts.



  • #2
    I have their creation as as a Ventrue or Gangrel ritual devotion. It's more detailed than this but the basics are

    Dominate 5, Protean 2, and Resilience 3.
    6 ft by 6 ft area of soil consecrated with 10 vitae.
    Only usable on human ghouls.
    Their creation invokes a Humanity check at level 3 and cannot be baned out.

    Use Possession on the soon to be gargoyle. While possessing their body, use Protean 2 to give them whatever gargoyle features you want. (As the creator, you have to currently possess those aspects.)
    Use Unmarked Grave to have them meld with a prepared area You have to keep your consciousness in them until they expire (death by suffocation usually, but you can also ingest a fatal poison before melding if you want) at which point you are ejected back to your own body.
    At sunset the next night the newly created gargoyle arises with whatever predatory aspects they were given and a stonelike appearance as the blood soaked soil melded to the corpse during the day. They have an effective armor of 3, regenerate 3 Bashing per turn, and most weapons do Bashing damage. They do not regenerate severed or destroyed parts but they can be reconstituted. (Separate devotion)
    They require food and water for sustenance just as a human but they don't die if deprived. They just go inert until reanimated again (Separate devotion)
    Sunlight exposure immediately renders them inanimate and insensate and regeneration does not work during daylight hours.
    Normal water does Lethal damage.
    Holy water will turn them to mud and counts as Aggravated damage.
    They are immune to emotion manipulation and mind reading as they don't have a personality any longer and no memories and no thoughts other than whatever current commands reverberating through what passes as their mind and cannot be turned against their creator.

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    • #3
      Depends on how big it is. Extended roll, Int+Science for homunculli, Crafts for gargoyles, or Occult if I feel like it, number of Vitae at least equal to the size, maybe more depending on what I want it to do, boom, done.


      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
      Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
        I have their creation as as a Ventrue or Gangrel ritual devotion. It's more detailed than this but the basics are

        Dominate 5, Protean 2, and Resilience 3.
        6 ft by 6 ft area of soil consecrated with 10 vitae.
        Only usable on human ghouls.
        Their creation invokes a Humanity check at level 3 and cannot be baned out.

        Use Possession on the soon to be gargoyle. While possessing their body, use Protean 2 to give them whatever gargoyle features you want. (As the creator, you have to currently possess those aspects.)
        Use Unmarked Grave to have them meld with a prepared area You have to keep your consciousness in them until they expire (death by suffocation usually, but you can also ingest a fatal poison before melding if you want) at which point you are ejected back to your own body.
        At sunset the next night the newly created gargoyle arises with whatever predatory aspects they were given and a stonelike appearance as the blood soaked soil melded to the corpse during the day. They have an effective armor of 3, regenerate 3 Bashing per turn, and most weapons do Bashing damage. They do not regenerate severed or destroyed parts but they can be reconstituted. (Separate devotion)
        They require food and water for sustenance just as a human but they don't die if deprived. They just go inert until reanimated again (Separate devotion)
        Sunlight exposure immediately renders them inanimate and insensate and regeneration does not work during daylight hours.
        Normal water does Lethal damage.
        Holy water will turn them to mud and counts as Aggravated damage.
        They are immune to emotion manipulation and mind reading as they don't have a personality any longer and no memories and no thoughts other than whatever current commands reverberating through what passes as their mind and cannot be turned against their creator.
        I take it this is homebrew? Because I haven't seen this anywhere before, and what's written here goes against how Dominate 5 'Possession' works (the rules for Possession clearly state you can't use Disciplines or Devotions while possessing someone or something). It also goes against how damage works in 2e (weapons in 2e always do lethal damage, unless you're using your human fists, without martial arts training and without using Vigor).

        Personally I just used the 1e stats for my gargoyles in 2e but with some slight tweaks to fit the 2e rules. Here's the Gargoyle stat sheet converted to 2e Prince of the Night :

        Gargoyles

        Attributes: Intelligence 1, Wits 3, Resolve 2, Strength 5, Dexterity 2, Stamina 5, Presence 3, Manipulation 1, Composure 2

        Skills: Athletics 2, Brawl 3 (Slam), Intimidation 3, Occult 1, Stealth 1, Weaponry 1

        Merits: Danger Sense

        Willpower: 4

        Initiative: 4

        Defense: 5 (highest of Wits/Dexterity + Athletics)

        Speed: 10 (species factor 3)

        Size: 5 (could be larger if you want, bigger size means more health)

        Health: 10

        Weapons/Attacks:
        Type / Damage / Dice Pool
        Slam / +2L* / 9
        *A successful attack applies the Knocked Down Tilt (p. 285 of Chronicles of Darkness).

        You could argue the gargoyle's attack should do bashing damage instead of lethal, and if you wanna run it that way, that's fine. Personally I think a gargoyle's attacks should do lethal damage given it's heavy stone-y nature. The 1e book says that a size 5 gargoyle is around 450 pounds (200 kilograms), and larger gargoyles could easily be up to 1000 pounds (450 kilograms). That's why I think being slammed by a gargoyle should be lethal and not bashing.

        I'd also argue that gargoyles, like vampires and ghouls, should downgrade all incoming mundane lethal damage down to bashing damage, but that's just my opinion.
        Last edited by Ventrue Life; 12-13-2018, 11:46 AM.

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        • #5
          Yes it's homebrew and yes I'm aware that by default you can't use your disciplines with possession. The entire point of gargoyle creation being a devotion is because devotions let you do things with disciplines you can't normally do with the base discipline alone. And not that I personally interpret it that way, but an argument can be made that ghouls using Unmarked Grave don't suffocate and die. The point is with this devotion it can be done.
          And yes gargoyles shrug off damage from most weapons because they aren't human anymore. They're humanoid automatons given grotesque features and a plethora of skills or powers using magical powers fueled by vampire blood, a lot of dirt, and a ghoul corpse.

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          • #6
            I don't really see why you say "most weapons". Just let them downgrade as vampires and it's easy to keep track of.
            The whole use powers when using Possession doesn't really make sense. Yes, Devotions allow you to do new things, but it's written as a prerequisite and not a separate thing that this Devotion allows you to do. I'd instead just "imprint" the ghoul with Aspects and bury them manually, having the ghoul develop those Aspects as permanent fixtures as they're being remoulded as a gargoyle, rather than have a Devotion that does two or three separate things.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
            Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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            • #7
              Why not just make it a Blood Sorcery ritual? Animating a guardian servant seems very "magic-y" to me.


              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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              • #8
                Because I'm not interested in letting a single covenant or clan (via bloodline) hold a monopoly on creating enhanced magical minions. Cruac has their chimera, Theban Sorcery has zombies, and the Ordo Dracul has draugr horde.
                Last edited by tsusasi; 12-13-2018, 08:54 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                  Because I'm not interested in letting a single covenant or clan (via bloodline) hold a monopoly on creating enhanced magical minions. Cruac has their chimera, Theban Sorcery has zombies, and the Ordo Dracul has draugr horde.
                  Not saying you have to or should, but if the main hang up to Blood Sorcery is a lack of access, have you considered doing it as a Threnody? Dirty street magic available to everyone is definitely a solid means.

                  (That said, I stand by my recommendation up the thread)


                  Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                  The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                  Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                    Because I'm not interested in letting a single covenant or clan (via bloodline) hold a monopoly on creating enhanced magical minions. Cruac has their chimera, Theban Sorcery has zombies, and the Ordo Dracul has draugr horde.

                    But you are fine with singling out clans? After all, having to get access to both Protean and Dominate arguably makes gargoyles a lot more limited than linking it to one or two covenant sorceries.

                    I'd say stick to the 1e rules for gargoyles and adapt/change things where necessary. RAW by 1e standards every clan and every covenant has access to gargoyle creation techniques.

                    That's just my opinion. I like the gargoyles from 1e so I'll stick to those. But if you wanna turn gargoyles into something else, for example monstrosities created from a ghoul corpse, that's cool too.
                    Last edited by Ventrue Life; 12-14-2018, 01:48 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Gargoyles don't seem to be a thing in 2e so far. Homunculi, however, seem to be a thing with Cruac - Birthing the God ritual, Secrets of the Covenant book, page 186. You can also argue that some of the Cruac Styles (same book, 3 pages earlier) are kind of along the same veins.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MCN View Post
                        ...along the same veins.
                        I see what you did there.


                        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          Depends on how big it is. Extended roll, Int+Science for homunculli, Crafts for gargoyles, or Occult if I feel like it, number of Vitae at least equal to the size, maybe more depending on what I want it to do, boom, done.
                          Is this a ritual or literal something any Vampire can do?


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

                            Is this a ritual or literal something any Vampire can do?
                            It something I made up on the spot to answer the question and therefore I assume it works for anyone.


                            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That would open up a whole avenue of blood technology and alchemy! Maaaadnesss!


                              It is a time for great deeds!

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