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Things that help you maintain vestigial humanity, but hurt going up that high.

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  • Things that help you maintain vestigial humanity, but hurt going up that high.

    something Ive noticed is that some things that will help you maintain vestigial or even moderate humanity Will damage attempts to climb the mountain too high.

    Namely Majesty or dominate. They make murder much less tempting.


    any other things that might help you maintain vestigial even moderated humanity but would hurt gaining anything more.



  • #2
    That's more or less the point of vampire society in general. Hanging out with other vampires is kinda hazardous for high levels of Humanity, but at the same time, you do have a group of fellow monsters who know what you're going through.


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    • #3
      just thought Cruac might also qualify Stolen and Willful Vitae reduces temptation to murder fellow kindred...


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      • #4
        Not really. Cruac requires vitae expenditure to enact. Contributing to the murder of a human as opposed to another kindred is not "better" for preserving Humanity. (It's still murder.) For that matter, using Cruac in any form isn't an activity someone interested in maintaining a high Humanity would pursue.

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        • #5
          ^
          Agreed.

          Theban Sorcery can safely be practiced by high-Humanity vampires, Crúac cannot. At the very least one should consider that learning Crúac is a Breaking Point at Humanity 4 and caps your maximum Humanity. Someone with 5 dots in Crúac can never be higher than Humanity 5. Meanwhile for Theban Sorcery it's the opposite, you must have at least Humanity 5 if you want to be able to cast rating 5 Theban Sorcery rituals.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
            For that matter, using Cruac in any form isn't an activity someone interested in maintaining a high Humanity would pursue.
            Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
            Theban Sorcery can safely be practiced by high-Humanity vampires, Crúac cannot. At the very least one should consider that learning Crúac is a Breaking Point at Humanity 4 and caps your maximum Humanity. Someone with 5 dots in Crúac can never be higher than Humanity 5. Meanwhile for Theban Sorcery it's the opposite, you must have at least Humanity 5 if you want to be able to cast rating 5 Theban Sorcery rituals.
            …Did y'all pay attention to the OP at all? The question is about things that make it harder for you to keep high Humanity despite facilitating a holding pattern at a lower rating. "Crúac caps your Humanity rating" is no part of a "not really" in that discussion.


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Satchel View Post

              …Did y'all pay attention to the OP at all? The question is about things that make it harder for you to keep high Humanity despite facilitating a holding pattern at a lower rating. "Crúac caps your Humanity rating" is no part of a "not really" in that discussion.
              Nothing what Tsusasi said was wrong, and it's perfectly relevant to the discussion.

              Does Crúac make it harder to keep high Humanity? Yes it does.
              Does it help maintain a vestigial or moderate sense of Humanity in any way? No it doesn't. Crúac is all about survival and dominating over others. As Dracula points out in his Rites of the Dragon book: "Theban Sorcery feeds the Man to the Beast, and Crúac feeds the world to it."

              So Crúac does not fit the arbitrary categorization of 'bad for high Humanity but good for maintaining moderate Humanity' as laid out by the OP.

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              • #8
                Stolen Vitae. Willful Vitae both help to disincentivize murder.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
                  Nothing what Tsusasi said was wrong, and it's perfectly relevant to the discussion.
                  "Murder is bad for your Humanity" doesn't have anything to do with Crúac that isn't equally applicable to any power with a Vitae cost.

                  "Kick the pipe dream of a higher rating further away to better secure your dwindling score" is a good chunk of the way covenants in general work; the argument being presented here amounts to "because vampires are bastards, we can invoke the perfect solution fallacy as an answer to whether a little focused inhumanity can let them stabilize at a level above 'completely incapable of relation to the living' even though those focused bits do not rely upon any other bits as a methodology."


                  Resident Lore-Hound
                  Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                  • #10
                    While the Circle of the Crone does embrace going down in Humanity, they do so with reverence, with each drop being a gift from the Crone, a change to your soul, as you turn into something more than you ever were before. But they're also about not going down to 0, where the change can't be appreciated, and wanton acts of Humanity dropping, which offers no reverence to the act. It's a sticking point in their (first edition) deals with the Belial's Brood, who believe they're just scared.

                    So you will be taking part in Humanity-dropping experiences, but you will also have a group around you that is going to watch out for you and make sure you don't drop too low, too fast, and give you time to adjust to your changes.

                    In case no one said it. Lashing Out. Rather than actually turn to violence, competition or lust, one can gain the benefits of succeeding at it without getting down to frenzy town. It's a nice way to handle things, I sort of wish some other games had ways to deal with it, a buffer between Peace and 'Things just got real.'
                    Last edited by nofather; 12-26-2018, 02:36 AM.

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                    • #11
                      how you think The circle would feel towards a low humanity kindred who approached them and wanted to join?

                      maybe help them get back to humanity 4 or 5. so their moderately stable?


                      Said in wicked dead their most likely to view becoming a Draughr with Equanamity but still don't WELCOME or RELISH the thought.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by title
                        Things that help you maintain vestigial humanity, but hurt going up that high.
                        Banes. Taking Banes for breaking points. They will keep you from high Humanity since they penalise detachment rolls and high Humanity means loads of rolls, and they'll keep you from falling further if you take Banes from low Humanity tiers since at low Humanity it's already rare to take breaking points if you're not a serial diablerist. Take Banes for the few you encounter with any kind of regularity and you'll end up highly stable at Humanity ~2. No breaking points, no potential detachment. But it's also risky since if you do engage with new atrocious behaviour you'll have an awful dice pool.
                        Last edited by Tessie; 12-26-2018, 12:55 PM.


                        Bloodline: The Stygians
                        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                        • #13
                          I could See a lot of the Circle being Dual covenant with Ordo Dracul j ust to get the Coil of Ziva.

                          as Buttres of the Soul. makes things much easier.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                            I could See a lot of the Circle being Dual covenant with Ordo Dracul j ust to get the Coil of Ziva.

                            as Buttres of the Soul. makes things much easier.
                            It’s also not something the Ordo thinks people should be bothering with so even if you know that it exists finding a teacher who’s willing to teach you the Coil risking you running off and teaching your Acolyte friends how to do it getting him in trouble for both studying it and letting non dragons learn it might prove difficult. On the other hand if it’s been declared a non coil it might be legal to teach it to anyone in the hopes that they will come seeking the proper stuff.

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                            • #15
                              possibly if nothing else... hthey may not declare war over it.

                              and I could see many practicionars of the coil running off and joining Circle or First Estate. when the order came after them.
                              Last edited by Prince of the Night; 12-26-2018, 04:03 PM.


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