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The actual origin of Dracula?

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  • #46
    I mean, by book in Requiem frenzy isn't always a Kuruth-esque bestial rage. It's the Beast seeing an opportunity to get what it wants, and taking the reins for a bit. Becoming captivated by the sight of blood and not being able to focus on anything else until you feed is a valid frenzy. So is going into a blind rage at a minor insult. Dracula does both in Stoker's original book.

    If you really want you can say "he never frenzies he just does something identical to a frenzy because of who he is". But why bother?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Draconis View Post
      I mean, by book in Requiem frenzy isn't always a Kuruth-esque bestial rage. It's the Beast seeing an opportunity to get what it wants, and taking the reins for a bit. Becoming captivated by the sight of blood and not being able to focus on anything else until you feed is a valid frenzy. So is going into a blind rage at a minor insult. Dracula does both in Stoker's original book.

      If you really want you can say "he never frenzies he just does something identical to a frenzy because of who he is". But why bother?
      Thing is the "beast within" is just a VtM/VtR invention that is never mentioned or brought up anywhere in the original novel or any 19th century Vampire literature at all.

      Also the reason Dracula was captivated by Blood is because he hasn't feed perhaps for a long time until maybe Harker came around.

      Just because there's parallels doesn't mean it's the same thing in context though although the concept of the beast may have been 'born' out of those but still taken out of context perhaps.
      Last edited by Black Blood; 01-29-2019, 02:48 AM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Black Blood View Post
        Thing is the "beast" is just a VtM/VtR invention that is never mentioned or brought up anywhere in the original novel or any 19th century Vampire literature at all.
        It's almost like it's metaphorical nomenclature attached to existing animalistic behavioral phenomena in vampire fiction and expecting a specific term from a roleplaying game released no earlier than 1991 to be mentioned in its Victorian-era inspirations is so needlessly particular as to beggar belief.

        You're asking about how to make the "real" Dracula in the Chronicles of Darkness and you're asking it in the Vampire: the Requiem subforum. Staunch refusal to acknowledge that people are going to filter their suggestions through those facts for basically no reason makes it really hard to determine what your actual goal is here.


        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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        • #49
          As I understand it the Requiem books more than hint that all of the various clans of Kindred (Ventrue, Daeva, Gangrel etc...) were originally different creatures with their own, unique, lost in the mists of time origins and it was only long term interaction between them that created the similar modern Kindred.
          Given that there is no reason, even in canon, why there can't be a totally unrelated creature with a unique origin of its own stalking the land.
          So make your Dracula exactly how you envision him from the novel, give him a snowflake origin with super special strengths and weaknesses exactly how you envision and don't worry about how he relates to the Kindred.
          He only has to mesh with them in two ways:
          1-Whatever you make him he has to work within the mechanics of the game, when he rolls dice or an opponent rolls dice against him you have to know what the end result will be.
          2-If he is still the founder of the Order Dracul then you will need to decide, at least in vague terms, what that actually means. I will remind you that the Order is exactly that, its not a clan or even bloodline but a group that a Kindred of any background can potentially join. There is no reason why a Vampire of a different sort couldn't have played a part in teaching its Kindred members, either intentionally or through being studied, how to nearly duplicate its own unique abilities. That could even go a long way towards explaining why the Order hasn't perfected its Coils yet.

          Make him whatever you want, just decide what that means and how he will interact with the Kindred that probably make up most of the game world. At least enough to tell your story.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
            It's almost like it's metaphorical nomenclature attached to existing animalistic behavioral phenomena in vampire fiction and expecting a specific term from a roleplaying game released no earlier than 1991 to be mentioned in its Victorian-era inspirations is so needlessly particular as to beggar belief.
            Then again not all Vampire literature in the 19th century had animalistic behavior phenomena existing particularly Polidari's "Vampyr" which Ruthven for example never displayed such behavior but rather he was more of a serial killer biting down and tearing the flesh of the women that fall in love with him using the strength of his jaw and he has no fangs either. The earliest example of Fangs were from "Varney the Vampire" which I think was the earliest description of having insable blood hunger only under the light of the full moon and the earliest example of Vampire fiction to regard vampirism as a 'curse' more because it has to do with Varney paying for his crimes he did in life which is why the Full Moon like Ruthven keeps reviving him.

            Then again just because the animalistic behaviors existed in said vampire stories doesn't mean it's the beast from a VtM/VtR context though.
            Last edited by Black Blood; 01-29-2019, 11:41 AM.

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            • #51
              Ayup. Also, refer to "Count F****** Dracula" on DriveThruRPG (down as of this typing). I rather like that little piece as Dracula reinventing himself for the modern era.

              But again to the point: we don't know if Dracula is better as a real person or a symbol the Brides used to kickstart the Ordo, which certainly needed enough adopters to come together and share their insights into vampirism and how to rise above it, if it was to function as an academic institution with practical side-effects.

              It could all be a lie.

              --Khanwulf

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              • #52
                @Black Blood

                I kind of want to echo 2ptTakrill. How were you thinking of having Dracula play out? I know you haven't got a game and are just brainstorming, but what direction are you thinking of going with the idea?

                Like, we can just take it for granted that Dracula isn't Kindred and that Stoker's novel is an accurate historical document in your world. But without more of a sense of what you want to focus on, we're left with a "so what?" response.

                Do you want to brainstorm on what events occurred post-novel or are you looking to create a new minor-template? Or are you trying to think of the consequences on the Ordo? Etc.

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                • #53
                  Black Blood

                  I would also like to add that 'the Beast' in Vampire the Requiem is not necessarily a literal separate entity that hides inside the Kindred. The Kindred like to talk about 'the Beast' as something other than themselves because they don't like to face the facts that they are the monsters, and that they are responsible for all the people they killed in a bloodthirsty rage. Some Clans are more honest about it than others, the Gangrel seem to be most aware of the fact that they are the Beast and the Beast is them.

                  'The Beast' is also an umbrella term in the VtR meta for us roleplayers and storytellers to group a certain set of vampire behaviors under one label so we have something to refer to when dealing with vampiric bloodthirst, vampiric rage and animalistic behavior.

                  The same goes for 'Humanity' by the way. It's a label vampires (but also us the players and storytellers) use to categorize humane behavior, in contrast to the distinctly inhumane behavior that falls under the 'Beast' label.

                  I think if you want to look at what the Beast and Humanity really represent, you should read Sigmund Freud's structural model of the human psyche where he describes the Id, Ego and Super-Ego. The Beast is nothing more than a person's Id turned up to eleven, and Humanity is nothing more than a person's Super-Ego.

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