The actual origin of Dracula?

[Black Blood]

From what I can recall from "Rites of the Dragon", I think it used the Francis Cord Coppla backstory for Dracula saying he was cursed by God and such but what if I decided to discard all that and instead went with the actual Bram Stoker's Dracula as exactly described in the novel especially where he really got his Vampirism from which was from Black Magic and Alchemy that he learned from the Scholomance and he's not even Kindred at all but a entirely different type of Vampire altogether hence explains why he can walk in the sun unharmed but weakened by it, but is automatically repelled and harmed by Catholic imagery no matter how much faith the wielder has, has no reflection, can't show up in cameras, has no shadow and even portraits of his likeness crumble over time, has red blazing inferno eyes when he engages in vampiric acts or becomes angered, he becomes aged and apparently weak if he goes long periods of time without drinking blood but becomes younger (and perhaps stronger) if he does but his hands are hairy and clawed, cannot enter a home without invitation, cannot cross running water, must sleep in his native soil, but is extremely powerful however? Plus he has no beast nor humanity system either.

Hence the Kindred made a convenient based around him trying to become just like their supposed "Founder" that is.

[Khanwulf]

You can play with his origin as much as you like. In fact modern Kindred can and probably should be concerned whether Dracula existed at all as the Coils he supposedly invented were spread by his "brides". Dracula himself is enough of an enigma you can write him in as you please.

Almost everything you list could be explained by banes, taken to stave off the degradation of Humanity. High Humanity would enable him to walk in the sunlight even. You could back that up with a supernatural merit or two--or a Coil, and then he won't be melting in the sun at all.

I'd keep the Beast and Humanity system. Just because Dracula doesn't frenzy in the book doesn't mean he's not struggling with what is the core game mechanic issue.

--Khanwulf

[Black Blood]

I'd keep the Beast and Humanity system. Just because Dracula doesn't frenzy in the book doesn't mean he's not struggling with what is the core game mechanic issue.

Actually it does mean he's not struggling with the Beast because he doesn't have one since he's not Kindred at all but a completely different type of Vampire that is entirely unique.

Since having Dracula as a typical Kindred not only cheapens his significance but also makes the game more boringly predictable.

Just because the Beast/Humanity system is the core game mechanic doesn't mean it wholly defines what a Vampire is.

[Spencer from The Hills]

Pretty much anything is possible in Chronicle of Darkness and this wouldn't be the first vampire that's unlike the splat as we know it (see Night Horrors: The Wicked Dead). If Dracula was that fundamentally different from other vampires (despite a lot of superficial similarities), then what exactly is his significance to V:tR, let alone the Ordo Dracul?

Besides, your description could also fit a strix.

[Nyrufa]

Dracula having no shadow? That's odd, according to my memory, the story of Dracula usually depicts him having a shadow that appears to have taken on a life of its own, being able to function independently of him.

That might just be a movie thing, though?


If we're talking about his ability to move in sunlight, that was actually the case for the original European vampire as well. The death by sunlight weakness didn't come into the picture until the Nosferatu movie, at which point, the story of vampires were retconned to include not being able to withstand the sun.

I think Dracula was killed by stabbing him in the heart with a silver knife, as opposed to a wooden stake?

[Black Blood]

Dracula having no shadow? That's odd, according to my memory, the story of Dracula usually depicts him having a shadow that appears to have taken on a life of its own, being able to function independently of him.

That might just be a movie thing, though?


If we're talking about his ability to move in sunlight, that was actually the case for the original European vampire as well. The death by sunlight weakness didn't come into the picture until the Nosferatu movie, at which point, the story of vampires were retconned to include not being able to withstand the sun.

I think Dracula was killed by stabbing him in the heart with a silver knife, as opposed to a wooden stake?

Dracula having no shadow is from the book which is one of the few details that hardly anyone pays attention to outside of pop culture.

Also he was originally killed by first having his throat slashed by Harker and Quincy stabbed him with a Bowe Knife through the heart and he crumbled to dust since it took several men to kill him since he wouldn't go down without a fight. The Stake in the Heart was from the 1931 Bela Lugosi film.

Pretty much anything is possible in Chronicle of Darkness and this wouldn't be the first vampire that's unlike the splat as we know it (see Night Horrors: The Wicked Dead). If Dracula was that fundamentally different from other vampires (despite a lot of superficial similarities), then what exactly is his significance to V:tR, let alone the Ordo Dracul?

Besides, your description could also fit a strix.

Highly doubt Dracula is a Strix but a rather unique type of Vampire via occultist means.

I always thought that other Kindred idolized and envied how unique Dracula was who doesn't have a beast, can walk in the sun, and how powerful he was which they formed a research group dedicated to studying him (and other non-Kindred vampires) which later became the Ordo Dracul which could be possible that the Founders of the Ordo-Dracul found the Scholomance which is how they developed the coils.

[Michael]

This seems a bad idea. You're basically removing the philosophical depth to the Ordo Dracul, replacing it with copying some random monster who isn't even a kindred. Plus, his limitations are really bad. His one advantage is the sunlight thing, but pretty much everything else is a step down. What's there to idolise?

[Black Blood]

I guess this means having Dracula as exactly described in the novel in Reqiuem is almost impossible to implement unless one invents a really, really good explanation.

Maybe it's possible that the Founder of the Ordo Dracul was of Drăculești bloodline but maybe not Vlad the Impaler himself but rather Mircea III Dracul was the one who was embraced and founded the Covenant whilst Vlad Tepes II Dracul was the one who obtained vampirism via the Scholomance.

[Michael]

I guess this means having Dracula as exactly described in the novel in Reqiuem is almost impossible to implement unless one invents a really, really good explanation.

It very much depends what your objective is. I mean, in most games, Dracula is only present in setting mythology. A kindred can read Dracula and wonder if the being presented is actually one of the kindred, and whether that matches their organisations founder, but that's more or less it. What's the aim of this?

[Black Blood]

It very much depends what your objective is. I mean, in most games, Dracula is only present in setting mythology. A kindred can read Dracula and wonder if the being presented is actually one of the kindred, and whether that matches their organisations founder, but that's more or less it. What's the aim of this?

Sure a Kindred can read Dracula and wonder if the being presented is one of their own but things are not what they seem to be though that's the point.

[Michael]

Sure a Kindred can read Dracula and wonder if the being presented is one of their own but things are not what they seem to be though that's the point.

Yes, but you still haven't said why that would matter to an actual game.

[Rosencroft]

Wasn't it suggested in one of Dark Eras that Dracula was actually cursed by God-Machine?

[DubiousRuffian]

he really got his Vampirism from which was from Black Magic and Alchemy that he learned from the Scholomance

The origins of our vampire myth are of a bloothirsty-shapeshifting witch, and I really like this as an origin for Dracula. That said...

Highly doubt Dracula is a Strix but a rather unique type of Vampire via occultist means.

I actually kind of like the idea of Dracula as being a Strix. Those witch origins for vampires *are* the Strix -- and I think that fits more with the Strix than the kindred. In Gangrel:Savage and Macabre, the Strix are described as sorcerers and a kind of sibling to the precursors to the Gangrel. And in the corebook, we're told that there are in fact several different species of Strix -- and the corebook tells us that the only surefire way of telling the difference between a kindred and a Strix is that Strix will survive sunlight. Further, vampires as reanimated corpses comes out of Transylvania/Romania and (doing a quick search of Strix/Rose posts) she mentions that the Kindred in Transylvania went to war with the Strix and that is where a lot of our vampire mythology comes from. Coded information about Strix.

So it might make sense that the most iconic, Transylvanian vampire is a Strix. But rather than the chaos causing, aimless vampires, Dracula is more in the vein of The Baron or Varney the Vampire. He is very old, and has been in one body long enough to do strange things to it... So what the hell is he doing with the Ordo? I know there is a fanmade Coil that is based on making the kindred more strix-like...

I always thought that other Kindred idolized and envied how unique Dracula was who doesn't have a beast, can walk in the sun, and how powerful he was which they formed a research group dedicated to studying him (and other non-Kindred vampires) which later became the Ordo Dracul which could be possible that the Founders of the Ordo-Dracul found the Scholomance which is how they developed the coils.

But yeah, if you're not feeling the strix-origin, what direction were you thinking of taking it? How were you thinking of having it play out in a game? That Dracula did something to himself at Scholomance, and the Ordo alter themselves in similar ways to create the Coils? Does that mean that the Coils could actually work on humans? In this case, who are The Brides? Could they be a trio of vampires who captured and now experiment on this semi-uber-vampire? Could they be his cultists?

[Black Blood]

The origins of our vampire myth are of a bloothirsty-shapeshifting witch, and I really like this as an origin for Dracula. That said...

I actually kind of like the idea of Dracula as being a strix. Those witch origins for vampires *are* the strix -- and I think that fits more with the strix than the kindred. In Gangrel:Savage and Macabre, the strix are described as a kind of sibling to the precursors to the Gangrel. And in the corebook, we're told that there are in fact several different species of strix -- and the corebook tells us that the only surefire way of telling the difference between a kindred and a strix is that strix will survive sunlight. Further, vampires as reanimated corpses comes out of Transylvania/Romania and (doing a quick search of Strix/Rose posts) she mentions that the Kindred in Transylvania went to war with the Strix and that is where a lot of our vampire mythology comes from. Coded information about Strix.

So it might make sense that the most iconic, Transylvanian vampire is a Strix. But rather than the chaos causing, aimless vampires, Dracula is more in the vein of The Baron or Varney the Vampire. He is very old, and has been in one body long enough to do strange things to it... So what the hell is he doing with the Ordo? I know there is a fanmade Coil that is based on making the kindred more strix-like...

Then again I have a feeling that shoehorning Dracula to either Kindred or Strix shoehorns extra baggage that isn't present in the original novel which means I'm better off presenting him as exactly how he is from the novel 100% including his origins as exactly described in the novel hence making him entirely unique and not exactly Strix nor Kindred at all but a entirely different or rather more powerful and unique strain of Vampirism that only he himself obtained making him stand out amongst other Vampires.

Although Sarah Kenyon from "The Tomb of Sarah" might fit closest to a Strix though more than Dracula however which is perhaps the most scariest Vampire story I've ever read myself.

[ArcaneArts]

In general, the "truth" of Dracula in Chronicles is actually something of a deliberate mystery-even the Rites of the Dragon are subject to being subjective interpretation or even a lie that Dracula doesn't realize is such(this was back when the Fog of Ages was a thing) or any number or other things. Even the light mention of possible intervention by the God-Machine is not a settled affair, and even if it is, there's a distance between such an event and the formation of the Ordo or the defeat of Dracula that any number of name-bearers could step into.

This is important for the mentality of the Ordo Dracul and the rest of vampire society by extension-Dracula as a physical entity is nowhere near as important as Dracula as a mutating, changing ideal. There could have been a thousand Draculas, all telling a thousand lies about who they were, and it is the mutability and terrible possibility in all of that that is important. Dracula represents the myriad stories of the vampires, the Strix and the Kindred and more asides, and the frightening possibility all and none of them are true. He is a nightmare in the dark, an impossibility made real by the incarnation of the Clans, the Bloodlines, and deeper still the Mysteries. He's a whisper from a friend of a friend of a friend, and maybe even half of it is true, and wouldn't that be terrifying.

So the more accurate way to approach the basic idea of the thread is "Which Dracula do you want to be true?"

Cause yeah, there was a Dracula. There were lots of Draculas. There will be more Draculas. At the end of the day, they'll all end up as being the many and one Dracula.

As for Stoker's, probably some kind of Kindred with a shit ton of Banes and a lot of history. Or not-the mistake over how common an epithet Dracula was in the area and time was just as prevalent then as it is now.(And that's speaking historically)