Sangiovanni Ghoul Family in VtR 2e

[Spectre9924]

Hey guys! This was created to go with the Sangiovanni bloodline as presented in Blood Sorcery: Rites of Damnation.

• Sangiovanni: It’s 5 am and -10 degrees in Boston. The streets clear, except for one woman. She’s bundled up head to toe with a duffle bag over her shoulder. She goes around the back and a door opens to the local Catholic church. The man who opened the door gently cups her face with his hand. “Holy shit, you look like fucking Hell. What are they doing to you C.” the priest responds, letting out a laugh. “You know Grandma. She likes keeping it… lively with her various appetites.” the young woman informs. The man grabs an end of the duffle bag and the two make their way to the basement where a small plot of soil is exposed. The two grab shovels from the corner and begin to dig. It shouldn’t be too bad. The blood and flesh have already been removed.
• History: Stories say that the family has always been rather… close. The turning of the mortal family into a line of ghouls was shockingly fluid. The naturally incestuous and long history with the perverse that the family cultivated simply added a few new tricks to the traditions of love bombing and abuse. The first issue they faced was tuning their traditions to the blood. Maria and Lodovico spent years trying to be able to formulate and codify the rights and manipulating the blood. The Lancea et Sanctum successfully courted the family and were able to make use of their ties in relation to Venetian commerce and clergy that the family developed a grip on. The Invictus had long disliked the Sangiovanni, even before the Embrace they recognized the danger of necromancers in their domains. In their earlier attempts to subdue the family, they were met by relatively weak, but plentiful corpses and were unprepared to deal with the strength the blood offers to those who possess its boon. Carving their way into power was done on top of the corpses of scores of would be exterminators of the line. Their grip was solidified through a combination of religious and economic power achieved through legal and illegal means. Since time immemorial they have been spiritual corruptors of the flock. Multiple cardinals, bishops, and even a Pope are counted in the family’s ranks. To this day they still have members who give themselves to the Church to extended the family’s will. The merchants of the family have their hands in the pies of countless corporations across their homeland of Italy and internationally. The slavers are rumored to still secretly be involved with human trafficking in Northern Africa, Europe, and North America. Older members of the line joke that their ancestors probably sold the biblical Joseph. Some relatives became deeply entrenched into organized crime beginning in the 1800s. Rumor has it they’ve been in control of the criminal underbelly of every major North American city since the mid-1970s. The Sangiovanni keep it in the family. Period. They don’t lend their ghouls and if anyone else attempts to Embrace or abuse a relative, they can expect to definitely be found in pieces. What happens after that is determined by how horrible the offense was; hopefully they don’t charge you to serve in death.
• Original Domitor: Lodovico was a cruel and domineering man in life. His transition into undeath merely cemented that. He wished for control above anything else and used magic and money to gain it. The turning of the family was a happy accident of sorts that the fledgling Lodovico didn’t question for a second.
• Progenitor: Maria was always a rather humble and skilled woman. In her youth, she was an adept in the medical field of their time. Lodovico recognized his kid sister as a definite force to be reckoned with and she was one of the first he revealed his new unliving state too. Legend holds that her ghouling was a mistake; that it occurred while in some act of research on the state of her brother. In those early nights, she was key in keeping the Invictus of the city from being successful in their blood hunts against the family. On more than a few occasions a Kindred who was sent after the family found Final Death at the hands her crafty traps. During one of Lodovico’s orgiastic rituals involving acts even other relatives consider disgusting; she became pregnant by his oldest son, Gabriele. Though Lodovico had long ghouled much of his line, they were the first to bear children in that state. The two were hidden from the Venetian All Night Society for the duration of the pregnancy out of fear of the vengeful fangs of the Invictus of the city possibly harming the family’s investment. The first generation of born ghouls: Giulia, Angelo, and Valentina exceeded family standards. Maria was a surprisingly doting and affectionate mother; constantly showering her prodigals with affection. Upon becoming adults they were given accolades by the family and their mother was gifted the Embrace, Giulia married a cousin and the two brutally expanded what would become the family’s trade empire, Angelo worked himself into the position of Cardinal at a shockingly young age, and Valentina gave herself to the academic and occult studies of her mother. After the Embrace, Maria became known for being able to apply Cattiveria in ways that even Lodovico lacked the knowledge to formulate. She also is responsible for forming the Hecata; a secretive death cult of necromancers who worship the old gods of Italy and Greece
• Benefit: All of those born of this line have an uncanny resonance with the deceased who refuse to stay in the grave. They gain the Undead as a skill specialty in Occult free of charge.
  Drawback: Members of this line have always had a deep, disturbing tradition of keeping with taboos. The addition of the blood merely forced it to be more concrete. Keeping it “in the family” has always been long-held family ethics. All ghouls of this line start with a Stage One Vinculum towards Sangiovanni vampires. Also, due to the perverse nature of the family when one suffers a degeneration they’re very likely to receive necrophilia as a Persistent Obsessive Condition. The family has long believed that societal taboos mean nothing amongst family and commonly practice some of their most depraved acts of passion on the dead. If not one another.

[falco1029]

While I like the idea of a Sangiovanni ghoul family, I do think that incest for the Sangiovanni is more of a footnote or side thing than something that comes out in force as an identifying factor (like with WoD Giovanni). So, I think there's a bit too much of a focus on that here. Heck, in the 2e conversion in that book I specifically avoided even using the word incest anywhere; I feel like for the Sangiovanni it's more about the corpses and death-obsession.

Essentially, I'd consider another drawback for the ghouls. Maybe make it less an obsession of incest and more like an inbuilt admiration of their family and desire to fit into their place within? Something like being effectively blood bound at 1 step to any Sangiovanni, maybe? Then it's less a blatant pull to incest and more just that unnatural admiration, which could go that route in some cases.

[Spectre9924]

I like that idea. I was trying to play up the utter depravity that the Giovanni were more or less representatives of as a kind of breakers of normal societal taboos. Sorry about the focus. Just wrote what made me felt disturbed and left it in

[Ventrue Life]

Spectre9924 you did a good job. The Sangiovanni ghoul family is supposed to be disturbing, and they are the product of generations of incest. While this has changed somewhat after the founder, Lodovido, got staked and sunrised, the 1e material makes it very clear that under Lodovico's rule, the Sangiovanni family was forced into incestuous relationships, which is how the ghoul family came to be in the first place. Leaving that (in my opinion) important detail out would diminish the impact of the Sangiovanni family and bloodline, it would make them less exciting.

(Actually, come to think of it, aren't most ghoul families the product of incest? This is probably due to how difficult it is to maintain a large number of ghouls, so to start a ghoul family, you need lots of ghouls having babies, but 1 vampire can only maintain so many ghouls, so you can see why a vampire trying to create a ghoul family ends up forcing his ghouls to commit incest.)

[Spectre9924]

(Actually, come to think of it, aren't most ghoul families the product of incest? This is probably due to how difficult it his to maintain a large number of ghouls, so to start a ghoul family, you need lots of ghouls having babies, but 1 vampire can only maintain so many ghouls, so you can see why a vampire trying to create a ghoul family ends up forcing his ghouls to commit incest.)

Definitely. And in 2e when discussing ghoul families ot even goes into the efforts they take trying to preserve the blood. If even a "normal" ghoul family has issues of abuse, violence, and incest; then in a way the Requiem's answer to the Giovanni of VtM should by all means be disgusting and oddly enduring even by vampiric standards.

[Spectre9924]

Spectre9924 you did a good job. The Sangiovanni ghoul family is supposed to be disturbing, and they are the product of generations of incest. While this has changed somewhat after the founder, Lodovido, got staked and sunrised, the 1e material makes it very clear that under Lodovico's rule, the Sangiovanni family was forced into incestuous relationships, which is how the ghoul family came to be in the first place. Leaving that (in my opinion) important detail out would diminish the impact of the Sangiovanni family and bloodline, it would make them less exciting.

Thank you! That's what I went off of. I tried to play up the fact that the Giovanni/Sangiovanni are kinda meant to be horrid. In VtM they hunted the pseudo noble Cappadocians to Final Death and are probably just slightly less hated than scum like the Tremere in many respects that even offend most other Kindred.

[Ventrue Life]

Definitely. And in 2e when discussing ghoul families ot even goes into the efforts they take trying to preserve the blood. If even a "normal" ghoul family has issues of abuse, violence, and incest; then in a way the Requiem's answer to the Giovanni of VtM should by all means be disgusting and oddly enduring even by vampiric standards.

Yeah.

That being said, I do sort of agree with falco1029 to some small degree, as in, their incest is definitely a big and disturbing part of the family, but it's not what is the most disturbing about them. Their obsession with death and necrophilia is what really makes this ghoul family unique and fucked up. So I would consider changing their Persistent Obsession Condition from focusing on incest to focusing on necrophilia instead.

[Spectre9924]

Essentially, I'd consider another drawback for the ghouls. Maybe make it less an obsession of incest and more like an inbuilt admiration of their family and desire to fit into their place within? Something like being effectively blood bound at 1 step to any Sangiovanni, maybe? Then it's less a blatant pull to incest and more just that unnatural admiration, which could go that route in some cases.

I like that. It allows for a better mechanic that still works with a less of a Sangiovanni focused story, but still is a direct cause of their unhealthy family dynamic.

[Spectre9924]

Yeah.

That being said, I do sort of agree with falco1029 to some small degree, as in, their incest is definitely a big and disturbing part of the family, but it's not what is the most disturbing about them. Their obsession with death and necrophilia is what really makes this ghoul family unique and fucked up. So I would consider changing their Persistent Obsession Condition from focusing on incest to focusing on necrophilia instead.

That's even better! It's a more direct connection to the reasons why this ghoul family is so, wrong since the disturbing family dynamic would already be rather common place.

[Spectre9924]

• Sangiovanni: It’s 5 am and -10 degrees in Boston. The streets clear, except for one woman. She’s bundled up head to toe with a duffle bag over her shoulder. She goes around the back and a door opens to the local Catholic church. The man who opened the door gently cups her face with his hand. “Holy shit, you look like fucking Hell. What are they doing to you C.” the priest lets out. Laughing a little. “You know Grandma. She likes keeping it… lively with her various appetites.” the young woman informs. The man grabs an end of the duffle bag and the two make their way to the basement where a small plot of soil is exposed. The two grab shovels from the corner and begin to dig. It shouldn’t be too bad. The blood and flesh have already been removed.
  • History: Stories say that the family has always been rather… close. The turning of the mortal family into a line of ghouls was shockingly fluid. The naturally incestuous and long history with the perverse that the family cultivated simply added a few new tricks to the traditions of love bombing and abuse. The first issue they faced was tuning their traditions to the blood. Maria and Lodovico spent years trying to be able to formulate and codify the rights and manipulating the blood. The Lancea et Sanctum successfully courted the family and were able to make use of their ties in relation to Venetian commerce and clergy that the family developed a grip on. The Invictus had long disliked the Sangiovanni, even before the Embrace they recognized the danger of necromancers in their domains. In their earlier attempts to subdue the family, they were met by relatively weak, but plentiful corpses and were unprepared to deal with the strength the blood offers to those who possess its boon. Carving their way into power was done on top of the corpses of scores of would be exterminators of the line. Their grip was solidified through a combination of religious and economic power achieved through legal and illegal means. Since time immemorial they have been spiritual corruptors of the flock. Multiple cardinals, bishops, and even a Pope are counted in the family’s ranks. To this day they still have members who give themselves to the Church to extended the family’s will. The merchants of the family have their hands in the pies of countless corporations across their homeland of Italy and internationally. The slavers are rumored to still secretly be involved with human trafficking in Northern Africa, Europe, and North America. Older members of the line joke that their ancestors probably sold the biblical Joseph. Some relatives became deeply entrenched into organized crime beginning in the 1800s. Rumor has it they’ve been in control of the criminal underbelly of every major North American city since the mid-1970s. The Sangiovanni keep it in the family. Period. They don’t lend their ghouls and if anyone else attempts to Embrace or abuse a relative, they can expect to definitely be found in pieces. What happens after that is determined by how horrible the offense was; hopefully they don’t charge you to serve in death.
  • Original Domitor: Lodovico was a cruel and domineering man in life. His transition into undeath merely cemented that. He wished for control above anything else and used magic and money to gain it. The turning of the family was a happy accident of sorts that the fledgling Lodovico didn’t question for a second.
  • Progenitor: Maria was always a rather humble and skilled woman. In her youth, she was an adept in the medical field of their time. Lodovico recognized his kid sister as a definite force to be reckoned with and she was one of the first he revealed his new unliving state too. Legend holds that her ghouling was a mistake; that it occurred while in some act of research on the state of her brother. In those early nights, she was key in keeping the Invictus of the city from being successful in their blood hunts against the family. On more than a few occasions a Kindred who was sent after the family found Final Death at the hands her crafty traps. During one of Lodovico’s orgiastic rituals involving acts even other relatives consider disgusting; she became pregnant by his oldest son, Gabriele. Though Lodovico had long ghouled much of his line, they were the first to bear children in that state. The two were hidden from the Venetian All Night Society for the duration of the pregnancy out of fear of the vengeful fangs of the Invictus of the city possibly harming the family’s investment. The first generation of born ghouls: Giulia, Angelo, and Valentina exceeded family standards. Maria was a surprisingly doting and affectionate mother; constantly showering her prodigals with affection. Upon becoming adults they were given accolades by the family and their mother was gifted the Embrace, Giulia married a cousin and the two brutally expanded what would become the family’s trade empire, Angelo worked himself into the position of Cardinal at a shockingly young age, and Valentina gave herself to the academic and occult studies of her mother. After the Embrace, Maria became known for being able to apply Cattiveria in ways that even Lodovico lacked the knowledge to formulate. She also is responsible for forming the Hecata; a secretive death cult of necromancers who worship the old gods of Italy and Greece
  • Benefit: All of those born of this line have an uncanny resonance with the deceased who refuse to stay in the grave. They gain the Undead as a skill specialty in Occult free of charge.
    Drawback: Members of this line have always had a deep, disturbing tradition of keeping with taboos. The addition of the blood merely forced it to be more concrete. Keeping it “in the family” has always been long-held family ethics. All ghouls of this line start with a Stage One Vinculum towards Sangiovanni vampires. Also, due to the perverse nature of the family when one suffers a degeneration they’re very likely to receive necrophilia as a Persistent Obsessive Condition. The family has long believed that societal taboos mean nothing amongst family and commonly practice some of their most depraved acts of passion on the dead. If not one another.

[Khanwulf]

I think you've fixed the main issue, which was alluded to by falco1029 and Ventrue Life, and in doing so ensured that they are very close indeed to each other as a norm. I could see extending the stage 1 Vinculum to ghouls of the Sangiovanni vamps, but that might take it too far.

In any event, I'd like to follow with a question that's puzzled me regarding the CofD Giovanni take: how do they do their ghost-meddling and such that made the Giovanni so scary in VtM? Just rituals and occult rolls? Supernatural merits?

--Khanwulf

[Draconis]

In the 1e book Bloodlines: the Chosen, they have a special necromantic Discipline. It's honestly not all that great: the dot five power, for example, does a couple points of lethal damage, and only to the undead. What a few people have done (including apparently the author of the new Blood Sorcery book) is turn it into a proper Sorcery, along the lines of Crúac and Theban, with rituals and all that jazz.

[falco1029]

I do like the new weakness better, yes!

I think you've fixed the main issue, which was alluded to by falco1029 and Ventrue Life, and in doing so ensured that they are very close indeed to each other as a norm. I could see extending the stage 1 Vinculum to ghouls of the Sangiovanni vamps, but that might take it too far.

In any event, I'd like to follow with a question that's puzzled me regarding the CofD Giovanni take: how do they do their ghost-meddling and such that made the Giovanni so scary in VtM? Just rituals and occult rolls? Supernatural merits?

--Khanwulf

In the 1e book Bloodlines: the Chosen, they have a special necromantic Discipline. It's honestly not all that great: the dot five power, for example, does a couple points of lethal damage, and only to the undead. What a few people have done (including apparently the author of the new Blood Sorcery book) is turn it into a proper Sorcery, along the lines of Crúac and Theban, with rituals and all that jazz.

Basically that. The 1e discipline was honestly unthematic and very limited. The book had talked about all sorts of necromantic things they pulled off then provided a rather underpowered zombie-making discipline. So most people turn it into Sorcery; as mentioned, in the Rites of Damnation book I put on the Vault, Cattiveria is a Sorcery with its own Motifs, and that has slightly altered 'Limitations of Sorcery' that allow them some minor truck with the Underworld in exchange for having trouble altering living beings.

[Khanwulf]

Basically that. The 1e discipline was honestly unthematic and very limited. The book had talked about all sorts of necromantic things they pulled off then provided a rather underpowered zombie-making discipline. So most people turn it into Sorcery; as mentioned, in the Rites of Damnation book I put on the Vault, Cattiveria is a Sorcery with its own Motifs, and that has slightly altered 'Limitations of Sorcery' that allow them some minor truck with the Underworld in exchange for having trouble altering living beings.

Interesting, and Rites of Damnation is actually on my list once I get through other things. Rather suspect it will be a long while before I can use the Sangiovanni. Now, the "Cappadocians"--what was their CofD analogue again? Do you cover their flavor of necromancy as well?

--Khanwulf

PS. I like mashups of CofD using WoD characters and material. With... fewer omnipotent elders, yaknow.

[falco1029]

Interesting, and Rites of Damnation is actually on my list once I get through other things. Rather suspect it will be a long while before I can use the Sangiovanni. Now, the "Cappadocians"--what was their CofD analogue again? Do you cover their flavor of necromancy as well?

--Khanwulf

PS. I like mashups of CofD using WoD characters and material. With... fewer omnipotent elders, yaknow.

Cappadocians don't really have a specific CofD analogue, but there's a few other necromantic bloodlines (that unfortunately aren't covered in 2e yet): Burakumin, Apollinaire, Sta-Au, and Dragolescu all have some focus on ghosts (there's one or two others I think) and/or undead. There's also an optional covenant in Danse Macabre, the Harbingers, that have a death-focus that's sorta like the Cappadocians, but they also have a case of "underwhelming discipline instead of magic" going for them.