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Sangiovanni Ghoul Family in VtR 2e

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  • #16
    Burakumin: Japanese zombie-makers who can do much higher quantities than the Sangiovanni (in 1e), but need the high levels to do anything useful, and have the Cappadocian flaw
    Apollinaire: Haitian vodouisants who work to fulfill a bargain with the Guèdè, the loa of death—lovely flavor but very regional (and their powers are more voodoo than necromancy)
    Sta-Au: a minor clan in their own right that revel in monstrosity and live in the Wastelands (which may or may not be the same as in Promethean)
    Dragolescu: Ventrue who developed ghost powers through horrific Diablerie-based research; they do the ghosts, while the Sangiovanni do the zombies
    Harbingers: a covenant rather than a bloodline, that gets an absolutely useless Discipline called Thanatosis

    In my games, the Burakumin, Dragolescu, Sangiovanni, and Harbingers all have their powers merged into a single ritual sorcery of Necromancy. I haven't bought Rites of Damnation yet, but my guess is Falco did pretty much the same thing.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Draconis View Post
      Burakumin: Japanese zombie-makers who can do much higher quantities than the Sangiovanni (in 1e), but need the high levels to do anything useful, and have the Cappadocian flaw
      Apollinaire: Haitian vodouisants who work to fulfill a bargain with the Guèdè, the loa of death—lovely flavor but very regional (and their powers are more voodoo than necromancy)
      Sta-Au: a minor clan in their own right that revel in monstrosity and live in the Wastelands (which may or may not be the same as in Promethean)
      Dragolescu: Ventrue who developed ghost powers through horrific Diablerie-based research; they do the ghosts, while the Sangiovanni do the zombies
      Harbingers: a covenant rather than a bloodline, that gets an absolutely useless Discipline called Thanatosis

      In my games, the Burakumin, Dragolescu, Sangiovanni, and Harbingers all have their powers merged into a single ritual sorcery of Necromancy. I haven't bought Rites of Damnation yet, but my guess is Falco did pretty much the same thing.
      Sort of. When dealing with 'core' sorcery I've come up with Kindred Necromancy as a strictly homebrew thing that I gave to all the Necromantic Bloodlines.

      In Rites of Damnation though, Bloodline Sorceries all follow a very easy template so you can end up with some fairly similar ones that manage their own Motifs. Sangiovanni have the only bloodline sorcery example in the book, and it follows a sort of 'science-infused dark necromancy' thematic with its Motifs. Other Necromancy based Sorceries, like for the Burakumin, if I were to do that, would likely be a bit more spiritual in their Motifs, though Harbringers might manage something equivalent to Cattiveria in a lot of ways.



      WoD: Sorcerer's Companion (M:tA)
      CofD: Second Sight: Third Eye (CofD), Crossing the Veil 2e (Co-developer, CofD), Borrowed Power (CofD), Pain, Rage, and Fear (WtF, Co-developer), Blood Sorcery: Rites of Damnation (VtR), Ephemeral Influence (CofD)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by falco1029 View Post

        Cappadocians don't really have a specific CofD analogue, but there's a few other necromantic bloodlines (that unfortunately aren't covered in 2e yet): Burakumin, Apollinaire, Sta-Au, and Dragolescu all have some focus on ghosts (there's one or two others I think) and/or undead. There's also an optional covenant in Danse Macabre, the Harbingers, that have a death-focus that's sorta like the Cappadocians, but they also have a case of "underwhelming discipline instead of magic" going for them.

        I have a bloodline based off of the Mla Watu(Laibon Cappadocains). Attempted to make it a ghost/spirit manipulating group and gave them a discipline. Would a sorcery be better suited? Sorry about asking on the spot, it's just you're kinda the perfect person to talk to this stuff about

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Spectre9924 View Post


          I have a bloodline based off of the Mla Watu(Laibon Cappadocains). Attempted to make it a ghost/spirit manipulating group and gave them a discipline. Would a sorcery be better suited? Sorry about asking on the spot, it's just you're kinda the perfect person to talk to this stuff about
          I'd go for a Sorcery, sure, if basing it off Cappadocians, but of course do what seems to work best, either way. The sets in the back of the book all follow the same format which should make it pretty easy to come up with a new one, just gotta make some basic choices and come up with Motifs (or just harvest them from existing sorceries)



          WoD: Sorcerer's Companion (M:tA)
          CofD: Second Sight: Third Eye (CofD), Crossing the Veil 2e (Co-developer, CofD), Borrowed Power (CofD), Pain, Rage, and Fear (WtF, Co-developer), Blood Sorcery: Rites of Damnation (VtR), Ephemeral Influence (CofD)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
            I think you've fixed the main issue, which was alluded to by falco1029 and Ventrue Life, and in doing so ensured that they are very close indeed to each other as a norm. I could see extending the stage 1 Vinculum to ghouls of the Sangiovanni vamps, but that might take it too far.

            In any event, I'd like to follow with a question that's puzzled me regarding the CofD Giovanni take: how do they do their ghost-meddling and such that made the Giovanni so scary in VtM? Just rituals and occult rolls? Supernatural merits?

            --Khanwulf
            In VtM, there were 3 lines of Necromancy: the Sepulchre Path, the Bone Path and the Ash Path. The Sepulchre Path dealt with ghosts and the afterlife, the Bone Path was for raising corpses and enhancing them, and the Ash path dealt with the Shadowlands.

            The Sangiovanni bloodline follows in broad lines the Bone Path, which doesn't have any ghost stuff in it.

            The Sepulchre Path and Ash Path seemed to have found their ways into some of the other necromancy-themed bloodlines, like the Osite and the Dragolescu.

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            • #21
              Thanks folks. It seems as if CofD chose in 1e to minimize blood sorcery to the 2+1 methods of core, partly to keep the proliferation of powers and preeminence of sorcery ala WoD in check. That... didn't work, and wasn't a good idea to solve the problem anyway. I'll have to pick up Falco's book to evaluate but 2e seems to shrug at the "problem" and I see nothing stopping use of alternate, niche blood sorcery approaches all over the place, instead of disciplines.

              --Khanwulf

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              • #22
                Basically! Though in 1e, there were also a whole bunch of specialized blood sorceries that certain bloodlines got: off the top of my head, Ahranite Sorcery, Mergès Sorcery, Kindred Vodoun, Gilded Cage Rituals, Lithopaedia, probably a few more too. 2e's only included the two (Crúac and Theban) in core, but fans have picked up on how useful sorcery rules are, which is why we've got things like Rites of Damnation on the Vault.

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                • #23
                  I had some thoughts on a 2e discipline that would allow more access to ghosts and the underworld but not knowing how access to the underworld was going to work in 2nd I abandoned it. Has there been any word on how the underworld works? I'm very much vampire focused so I don't follow the other lines.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
                    I had some thoughts on a 2e discipline that would allow more access to ghosts and the underworld but not knowing how access to the underworld was going to work in 2nd I abandoned it. Has there been any word on how the underworld works? I'm very much vampire focused so I don't follow the other lines.
                    The Underworld and most of the ghost stuff is in Geist 2e, which is still only available as a preview copy. Not sure if it was put up for everyone to look at or just kickstarter backers.


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                    • #25
                      Only backers for now, unfortunately. But here's hoping it becomes properly available soon!

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