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  • Spectre9924
    started a topic Sangiovanni Ghoul Family in VtR 2e

    Sangiovanni Ghoul Family in VtR 2e

    Hey guys! This was created to go with the Sangiovanni bloodline as presented in Blood Sorcery: Rites of Damnation.
    • Sangiovanni: It’s 5 am and -10 degrees in Boston. The streets clear, except for one woman. She’s bundled up head to toe with a duffle bag over her shoulder. She goes around the back and a door opens to the local Catholic church. The man who opened the door gently cups her face with his hand. “Holy shit, you look like fucking Hell. What are they doing to you C.” the priest responds, letting out a laugh. “You know Grandma. She likes keeping it… lively with her various appetites.” the young woman informs. The man grabs an end of the duffle bag and the two make their way to the basement where a small plot of soil is exposed. The two grab shovels from the corner and begin to dig. It shouldn’t be too bad. The blood and flesh have already been removed.
    • History: Stories say that the family has always been rather… close. The turning of the mortal family into a line of ghouls was shockingly fluid. The naturally incestuous and long history with the perverse that the family cultivated simply added a few new tricks to the traditions of love bombing and abuse. The first issue they faced was tuning their traditions to the blood. Maria and Lodovico spent years trying to be able to formulate and codify the rights and manipulating the blood. The Lancea et Sanctum successfully courted the family and were able to make use of their ties in relation to Venetian commerce and clergy that the family developed a grip on. The Invictus had long disliked the Sangiovanni, even before the Embrace they recognized the danger of necromancers in their domains. In their earlier attempts to subdue the family, they were met by relatively weak, but plentiful corpses and were unprepared to deal with the strength the blood offers to those who possess its boon. Carving their way into power was done on top of the corpses of scores of would be exterminators of the line. Their grip was solidified through a combination of religious and economic power achieved through legal and illegal means. Since time immemorial they have been spiritual corruptors of the flock. Multiple cardinals, bishops, and even a Pope are counted in the family’s ranks. To this day they still have members who give themselves to the Church to extended the family’s will. The merchants of the family have their hands in the pies of countless corporations across their homeland of Italy and internationally. The slavers are rumored to still secretly be involved with human trafficking in Northern Africa, Europe, and North America. Older members of the line joke that their ancestors probably sold the biblical Joseph. Some relatives became deeply entrenched into organized crime beginning in the 1800s. Rumor has it they’ve been in control of the criminal underbelly of every major North American city since the mid-1970s. The Sangiovanni keep it in the family. Period. They don’t lend their ghouls and if anyone else attempts to Embrace or abuse a relative, they can expect to definitely be found in pieces. What happens after that is determined by how horrible the offense was; hopefully they don’t charge you to serve in death.
    • Original Domitor: Lodovico was a cruel and domineering man in life. His transition into undeath merely cemented that. He wished for control above anything else and used magic and money to gain it. The turning of the family was a happy accident of sorts that the fledgling Lodovico didn’t question for a second.
    • Progenitor: Maria was always a rather humble and skilled woman. In her youth, she was an adept in the medical field of their time. Lodovico recognized his kid sister as a definite force to be reckoned with and she was one of the first he revealed his new unliving state too. Legend holds that her ghouling was a mistake; that it occurred while in some act of research on the state of her brother. In those early nights, she was key in keeping the Invictus of the city from being successful in their blood hunts against the family. On more than a few occasions a Kindred who was sent after the family found Final Death at the hands her crafty traps. During one of Lodovico’s orgiastic rituals involving acts even other relatives consider disgusting; she became pregnant by his oldest son, Gabriele. Though Lodovico had long ghouled much of his line, they were the first to bear children in that state. The two were hidden from the Venetian All Night Society for the duration of the pregnancy out of fear of the vengeful fangs of the Invictus of the city possibly harming the family’s investment. The first generation of born ghouls: Giulia, Angelo, and Valentina exceeded family standards. Maria was a surprisingly doting and affectionate mother; constantly showering her prodigals with affection. Upon becoming adults they were given accolades by the family and their mother was gifted the Embrace, Giulia married a cousin and the two brutally expanded what would become the family’s trade empire, Angelo worked himself into the position of Cardinal at a shockingly young age, and Valentina gave herself to the academic and occult studies of her mother. After the Embrace, Maria became known for being able to apply Cattiveria in ways that even Lodovico lacked the knowledge to formulate. She also is responsible for forming the Hecata; a secretive death cult of necromancers who worship the old gods of Italy and Greece
    • Benefit: All of those born of this line have an uncanny resonance with the deceased who refuse to stay in the grave. They gain the Undead as a skill specialty in Occult free of charge.
      Drawback: Members of this line have always had a deep, disturbing tradition of keeping with taboos. The addition of the blood merely forced it to be more concrete. Keeping it “in the family” has always been long-held family ethics. All ghouls of this line start with a Stage One Vinculum towards Sangiovanni vampires. Also, due to the perverse nature of the family when one suffers a degeneration they’re very likely to receive necrophilia as a Persistent Obsessive Condition. The family has long believed that societal taboos mean nothing amongst family and commonly practice some of their most depraved acts of passion on the dead. If not one another.
    Last edited by Spectre9924; 02-13-2019, 09:43 PM.

  • Draconis
    replied
    Only backers for now, unfortunately. But here's hoping it becomes properly available soon!

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
    I had some thoughts on a 2e discipline that would allow more access to ghosts and the underworld but not knowing how access to the underworld was going to work in 2nd I abandoned it. Has there been any word on how the underworld works? I'm very much vampire focused so I don't follow the other lines.
    The Underworld and most of the ghost stuff is in Geist 2e, which is still only available as a preview copy. Not sure if it was put up for everyone to look at or just kickstarter backers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Live Bait
    replied
    I had some thoughts on a 2e discipline that would allow more access to ghosts and the underworld but not knowing how access to the underworld was going to work in 2nd I abandoned it. Has there been any word on how the underworld works? I'm very much vampire focused so I don't follow the other lines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Draconis
    replied
    Basically! Though in 1e, there were also a whole bunch of specialized blood sorceries that certain bloodlines got: off the top of my head, Ahranite Sorcery, Mergès Sorcery, Kindred Vodoun, Gilded Cage Rituals, Lithopaedia, probably a few more too. 2e's only included the two (Crúac and Theban) in core, but fans have picked up on how useful sorcery rules are, which is why we've got things like Rites of Damnation on the Vault.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Thanks folks. It seems as if CofD chose in 1e to minimize blood sorcery to the 2+1 methods of core, partly to keep the proliferation of powers and preeminence of sorcery ala WoD in check. That... didn't work, and wasn't a good idea to solve the problem anyway. I'll have to pick up Falco's book to evaluate but 2e seems to shrug at the "problem" and I see nothing stopping use of alternate, niche blood sorcery approaches all over the place, instead of disciplines.

    --Khanwulf

    Leave a comment:


  • Ventrue Life
    replied
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
    I think you've fixed the main issue, which was alluded to by falco1029 and Ventrue Life, and in doing so ensured that they are very close indeed to each other as a norm. I could see extending the stage 1 Vinculum to ghouls of the Sangiovanni vamps, but that might take it too far.

    In any event, I'd like to follow with a question that's puzzled me regarding the CofD Giovanni take: how do they do their ghost-meddling and such that made the Giovanni so scary in VtM? Just rituals and occult rolls? Supernatural merits?

    --Khanwulf
    In VtM, there were 3 lines of Necromancy: the Sepulchre Path, the Bone Path and the Ash Path. The Sepulchre Path dealt with ghosts and the afterlife, the Bone Path was for raising corpses and enhancing them, and the Ash path dealt with the Shadowlands.

    The Sangiovanni bloodline follows in broad lines the Bone Path, which doesn't have any ghost stuff in it.

    The Sepulchre Path and Ash Path seemed to have found their ways into some of the other necromancy-themed bloodlines, like the Osite and the Dragolescu.

    Leave a comment:


  • falco1029
    replied
    Originally posted by Spectre9924 View Post


    I have a bloodline based off of the Mla Watu(Laibon Cappadocains). Attempted to make it a ghost/spirit manipulating group and gave them a discipline. Would a sorcery be better suited? Sorry about asking on the spot, it's just you're kinda the perfect person to talk to this stuff about
    I'd go for a Sorcery, sure, if basing it off Cappadocians, but of course do what seems to work best, either way. The sets in the back of the book all follow the same format which should make it pretty easy to come up with a new one, just gotta make some basic choices and come up with Motifs (or just harvest them from existing sorceries)

    Leave a comment:


  • Spectre9924
    replied
    Originally posted by falco1029 View Post

    Cappadocians don't really have a specific CofD analogue, but there's a few other necromantic bloodlines (that unfortunately aren't covered in 2e yet): Burakumin, Apollinaire, Sta-Au, and Dragolescu all have some focus on ghosts (there's one or two others I think) and/or undead. There's also an optional covenant in Danse Macabre, the Harbingers, that have a death-focus that's sorta like the Cappadocians, but they also have a case of "underwhelming discipline instead of magic" going for them.

    I have a bloodline based off of the Mla Watu(Laibon Cappadocains). Attempted to make it a ghost/spirit manipulating group and gave them a discipline. Would a sorcery be better suited? Sorry about asking on the spot, it's just you're kinda the perfect person to talk to this stuff about

    Leave a comment:


  • falco1029
    replied
    Originally posted by Draconis View Post
    Burakumin: Japanese zombie-makers who can do much higher quantities than the Sangiovanni (in 1e), but need the high levels to do anything useful, and have the Cappadocian flaw
    Apollinaire: Haitian vodouisants who work to fulfill a bargain with the Guèdè, the loa of death—lovely flavor but very regional (and their powers are more voodoo than necromancy)
    Sta-Au: a minor clan in their own right that revel in monstrosity and live in the Wastelands (which may or may not be the same as in Promethean)
    Dragolescu: Ventrue who developed ghost powers through horrific Diablerie-based research; they do the ghosts, while the Sangiovanni do the zombies
    Harbingers: a covenant rather than a bloodline, that gets an absolutely useless Discipline called Thanatosis

    In my games, the Burakumin, Dragolescu, Sangiovanni, and Harbingers all have their powers merged into a single ritual sorcery of Necromancy. I haven't bought Rites of Damnation yet, but my guess is Falco did pretty much the same thing.
    Sort of. When dealing with 'core' sorcery I've come up with Kindred Necromancy as a strictly homebrew thing that I gave to all the Necromantic Bloodlines.

    In Rites of Damnation though, Bloodline Sorceries all follow a very easy template so you can end up with some fairly similar ones that manage their own Motifs. Sangiovanni have the only bloodline sorcery example in the book, and it follows a sort of 'science-infused dark necromancy' thematic with its Motifs. Other Necromancy based Sorceries, like for the Burakumin, if I were to do that, would likely be a bit more spiritual in their Motifs, though Harbringers might manage something equivalent to Cattiveria in a lot of ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • Draconis
    replied
    Burakumin: Japanese zombie-makers who can do much higher quantities than the Sangiovanni (in 1e), but need the high levels to do anything useful, and have the Cappadocian flaw
    Apollinaire: Haitian vodouisants who work to fulfill a bargain with the Guèdè, the loa of death—lovely flavor but very regional (and their powers are more voodoo than necromancy)
    Sta-Au: a minor clan in their own right that revel in monstrosity and live in the Wastelands (which may or may not be the same as in Promethean)
    Dragolescu: Ventrue who developed ghost powers through horrific Diablerie-based research; they do the ghosts, while the Sangiovanni do the zombies
    Harbingers: a covenant rather than a bloodline, that gets an absolutely useless Discipline called Thanatosis

    In my games, the Burakumin, Dragolescu, Sangiovanni, and Harbingers all have their powers merged into a single ritual sorcery of Necromancy. I haven't bought Rites of Damnation yet, but my guess is Falco did pretty much the same thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • falco1029
    replied
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

    Interesting, and Rites of Damnation is actually on my list once I get through other things. Rather suspect it will be a long while before I can use the Sangiovanni. Now, the "Cappadocians"--what was their CofD analogue again? Do you cover their flavor of necromancy as well?

    --Khanwulf

    PS. I like mashups of CofD using WoD characters and material. With... fewer omnipotent elders, yaknow.
    Cappadocians don't really have a specific CofD analogue, but there's a few other necromantic bloodlines (that unfortunately aren't covered in 2e yet): Burakumin, Apollinaire, Sta-Au, and Dragolescu all have some focus on ghosts (there's one or two others I think) and/or undead. There's also an optional covenant in Danse Macabre, the Harbingers, that have a death-focus that's sorta like the Cappadocians, but they also have a case of "underwhelming discipline instead of magic" going for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by falco1029 View Post
    Basically that. The 1e discipline was honestly unthematic and very limited. The book had talked about all sorts of necromantic things they pulled off then provided a rather underpowered zombie-making discipline. So most people turn it into Sorcery; as mentioned, in the Rites of Damnation book I put on the Vault, Cattiveria is a Sorcery with its own Motifs, and that has slightly altered 'Limitations of Sorcery' that allow them some minor truck with the Underworld in exchange for having trouble altering living beings.
    Interesting, and Rites of Damnation is actually on my list once I get through other things. Rather suspect it will be a long while before I can use the Sangiovanni. Now, the "Cappadocians"--what was their CofD analogue again? Do you cover their flavor of necromancy as well?

    --Khanwulf

    PS. I like mashups of CofD using WoD characters and material. With... fewer omnipotent elders, yaknow.

    Leave a comment:


  • falco1029
    replied
    I do like the new weakness better, yes!

    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
    I think you've fixed the main issue, which was alluded to by falco1029 and Ventrue Life, and in doing so ensured that they are very close indeed to each other as a norm. I could see extending the stage 1 Vinculum to ghouls of the Sangiovanni vamps, but that might take it too far.

    In any event, I'd like to follow with a question that's puzzled me regarding the CofD Giovanni take: how do they do their ghost-meddling and such that made the Giovanni so scary in VtM? Just rituals and occult rolls? Supernatural merits?

    --Khanwulf
    Originally posted by Draconis View Post
    In the 1e book Bloodlines: the Chosen, they have a special necromantic Discipline. It's honestly not all that great: the dot five power, for example, does a couple points of lethal damage, and only to the undead. What a few people have done (including apparently the author of the new Blood Sorcery book) is turn it into a proper Sorcery, along the lines of Crúac and Theban, with rituals and all that jazz.
    Basically that. The 1e discipline was honestly unthematic and very limited. The book had talked about all sorts of necromantic things they pulled off then provided a rather underpowered zombie-making discipline. So most people turn it into Sorcery; as mentioned, in the Rites of Damnation book I put on the Vault, Cattiveria is a Sorcery with its own Motifs, and that has slightly altered 'Limitations of Sorcery' that allow them some minor truck with the Underworld in exchange for having trouble altering living beings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Draconis
    replied
    In the 1e book Bloodlines: the Chosen, they have a special necromantic Discipline. It's honestly not all that great: the dot five power, for example, does a couple points of lethal damage, and only to the undead. What a few people have done (including apparently the author of the new Blood Sorcery book) is turn it into a proper Sorcery, along the lines of Crúac and Theban, with rituals and all that jazz.

    Leave a comment:

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