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  • A Daeva and a Ganrel Own a Bar...

    So I need a little bit of assistance. Don't really care about rules, this is for a fic so I'm more concerned with a good story. So I want to have several characters who are basically top tier black ops being wrangled into taking out a bar owned by a neonate male Daeva and female Gangrel. What I need help with is how many ghouls they would have, what their powers would be, and how much of a fight they would put up. The black ops are all skilled, but have no experience in the least with anything related to the paranormal.

  • #2
    Ghouls are a tricky question because the answer could be anywhere from none to lots. I know you don't want to focus on rules but assuming no bloodline and no out of clan disciplines the Deava could charm everyone until they start behaving or hit hard and fast until one side is down whereas the Gangral may be seemingly immune to damage from the point of view of the black ops guys or set animals on them plus whatever mix of predatory aspects she has will probably freak them out. The Gangral probably didn't select her aspects for what if mortal black ops raid us so feel free to have any mix you want.
    The Deava is probably unable to use The Wish so hopefully not too many random people willing to die for him but the Gangal could have quite a few animals living and undead that will come to her aid.
    In short a lot depends on how the vampires have set themselves up.

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    • #3
      "Standard" powers, by book:
      • Daeva:
        • Majesty = charming people, making bystanders take his side if attacked ("I'm innocent, won't anyone come protect me?") or making it hard to attack him. Outside of combat, has a huge advantage in social maneuvering.
        • Celerity = moving really really fast. Can spend blood to pre-empt other people's actions ("I use my action to shoot him" "I pre-empt that and move out of the way"). Also adds extra Defense that even works against guns.
        • Vigor = hitting hard, jumping really far, and throwing/hitting people with absurdly large objects (like tables, or small cars at high levels).
      • Gangrel:
        • Protean = transforming her body, turning her hands into claws, morphing into a wolf, things like that. If she's really good at it, turning into a cloud of mist/smoke.
        • Animalism = talking to animals, summoning them, seeing through their eyes, making people go temporarily insane and attack anything around them.
        • Resilience = soaking damage. If she's good at it she can even shrug off fire for a little while, or heal instantly from pretty much any mundane weapon.
      • Both of them:
        • Physical Intensity = spend blood to become stronger, faster, more dextrous, etc for a short time.
        • Healing = spend blood to heal any damage they've taken
        • Damage downgrading = damage from all mundane sources (except fire) is downgraded by one level. So lethal becomes bashing, and aggravated becomes lethal.
      Between them, they'd put up quite a fight. Unless the black ops take them by surprise, the vampires are likely to win. And even then, the Gangrel might have told all the local animals to come warn her if something seems wrong.

      (Also note that the three "clan" powers are available to that clan: not every Daeva has Celerity, not every Gangrel has Animalism, etc. Mix and match; they'll probably be good at one and not as good at another. The three "universal" powers they're both proficient at automatically.)

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      • #4
        Got it. Anything else to keep in mind?

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        • #5
          All vampires have to deal with what they call "the Beast", basically the id part of their mind, but now with superpowers. When something sets it off (basically anything that would make a normal human act on pure impulse without thinking: "my life is in danger", "this man just hurt someone I love", "I need food NOW oh gods I'm so hungry") it can sometimes take over completely, which they call "frenzy": they get a LOT scarier and have no morals or long-term thinking holding them back. Imagine something along the lines of "you just hurt my loved one, now I'm going to not only kill you but destroy everyone and everything you ever cared about to make sure this never happens again".

          With any luck, they stop frenzying before doing something too horrible. But that doesn't always happen. You know the stories about parents lifting cars to save their children? Take that, add Vigor, add Physical Intensity, and add a lot of rage and anger underlying all of it. Then remove all moral codes and long-term thinking, because the Beast doesn't care about those. It's bad.

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          • #6
            From a ludonarrative standpoint and also because you did specifically ask about ghouls:

            The Daeva in general have a much larger margin for making use of the common vampiric powers that have costs than the other clans; their unique Discipline doesn't get a power with a Vitae cost until halfway up the ladder, and combined with having two of the "physical Disciplines" in their affinity, that means a Serpent who isn't attempting superhuman feats of athleticism or bumping their particular brand of charisma up to "die for me, won't you?" levels on a regular basis can routinely spare the blood needed to create and maintain ghouls, propagate blood-bonds and blood addiction, pass for a living person, heal damage, or add even more dice to their Physical rolls. The defining features of the Daeva powerset are low-maintenance and easy to build up over time.

            The Gangrel, meanwhile, run much hotter; Protean's foundational power is conditionally costless, Animalism's basic power is free, and Resilience has always-on effects just like Vigor and Celerity do, but the entire rest of those chains of power costs Vitae to use and is pretty overt to see in action besides, whether it's sprouting bestial claws or spreading blood around a city block or blithely ignoring what mortals would treat as a sucking chest wound. The clan is built primarily around surviving a good chunk of what the world can throw at them, and frenzy tends to fill the gaps in their natural competencies because frenzy does what Physical Intensity about half as well for none of the cost — the Savages are very good at living out of foxholes and getting past the troubles vampires usually experience in dealing with less developed areas that aren't cave systems.

            The Gangrel skillset also tends to make them the go-to examples of regnants for nonhuman ghouls, which may merit some exploration depending on if the bar's got a resident cat or dog or population of rats, and they're also the best-known basis for the psychic phenomenon that sometimes develops between members of a coterie (alluded to in 2e Core through the Pack Alpha Merit). Also, depending on how close these two are to the bar and each other, they may have started to develop some of each other's Disciplines or otherwise begun to see their mystical qualities bleed into each other.


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • #7
              If we're covering everything (I assumed you were familia with the rules) then remember that vampires only take bashing damage from most attacks so shooting them is going to be less effective than shooting a human and if they have any sense the vampires will have the place set up to deal with any fires that start.
              How much of a briefing were the black ops guys given? If they know about fire frenzy they might pack a easy source of flame, maybe flares.

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              • #8
                To expand on the bashing damage thing: They don't need their organs to "live" so perforating the lungs, brain, heart(except wooden stake) etc harms no more than fleshwound. Fire is just as deadly as sunlight, though as stated above, the Gangrel may be resistant to it.

                There are a few stereotypical "types" of these creatures.
                Daeva: Seductive and charismatic but not much of a fighter
                Superhuman fighter but lacking in charisma
                Warrior-poet type that blends the two.
                As for number of ghouls, naturally the worse it is in combat, the more ghouls it will have. Some have large harems or stables worth.
                Their fighting powers enhance strength and speed, reaction

                Gangrel: Assuming it's the type to own a bar and participate in it routinely
                Gruff bouncer- heavy bruiser type with some shapeshifting ability
                Backwoods hunter/trapper guy - Shapeshifter with animal allies in various states of life or undeath, but not nearly as "Tanky".
                Bummy homeless type - Not much of a fighter or shapeshifter but heavy focus on verminous animal allies and possessing the ability to send others en mass into murderous rage and dictate the target(s) of their rage. It's not really direct mind control, more like eliciting intense, reckless berserker rage and pointing it at "that guy" or "those people".
                Their fighting powers enhance pure toughness and allow shapeshifting.
                Last edited by Rathamus; 03-26-2019, 12:26 PM.

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                • #9
                  Depending on their Humanity sunlight could do quite a low amount of damage given that at Blood Potincy 1 they have ten (maybe fifteen I don't have my book to hand) minutes before they actually take the damage, not that they wouldn't risk frenzy.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
                    Depending on their Humanity sunlight could do quite a low amount of damage given that at Blood Potincy 1 they have ten (maybe fifteen I don't have my book to hand) minutes before they actually take the damage, not that they wouldn't risk frenzy.
                    (It's ten minutes at Blood Potency 1-2 and the damage is lethal rather than aggravated until the vampire's dropped to Humanity 4 and below.)

                    Building on this, there's something that gets a little obfuscated by the explicit statements of how the power works, but:

                    Despite not offering most of its benefits against the bane, Resilience isn't completely useless against sunlight damage; a vampire who's invested in their unnatural toughness will still break down in sunlight at least a little bit slower than the same vampire without Resilience, because extra Stamina means extra Health.


                    Resident Lore-Hound
                    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                    • #11
                      Roger that, thanks everyone!

                      EDIT: Does any of this change if the two vampires in question are new (Which in my mind is roughly 10~ years dead)
                      Last edited by Flyboy254; 03-27-2019, 08:43 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Well Neonates (youngins) tend to be more brash, direct, sloppy, and reckless. Of course they're also less powerful and less well connected.

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                        • #13
                          They're probably more isolated if they're young, and have a smaller network to draw on for support. Still terrifying in a fight.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Draconis View Post
                            They're probably more isolated if they're young, and have a smaller network to draw on for support. Still terrifying in a fight.
                            Relatedly, they're marginally less likely to have direct access to the advantages of a covenant, but their sires and the rest of their extended lines of descent (and their clans in the locale in general) merit more direct consideration — sure, not every neonate keeps in touch with their sire or even still has one, but if they're relatively new assets for older vampires then messing with them could turn out to be kicking a hornet's nest.


                            Resident Lore-Hound
                            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                              but if they're relatively new assets for older vampires then messing with them could turn out to be kicking a hornet's nest.
                              Great point, that could open up a whole new plot in it's own right. Ancilla and Elders are much more devious and it may take a good, long time to follow the web back to the spider in the middle or even figure out that there IS a web in the first place.

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