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Animalism 5 - Lord of the Land

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  • Animalism 5 - Lord of the Land

    So this power says:
    "Finally, the vampire can snatch the senses of any animal she has raised with Raise the Familiar within her territory, and use that animal to deliver commands using Feral Whiseprs to other creatures."

    The way it's worded, it sounds like if you use Raise the Familiar to raise a creature while it is in your land, then you can always snatch it's senses even if it leaves your land after you raise it?

    I think theintent is "any animal within her territory which she has raised with Raise the Familiar..." but the way it's actually worded suggest that as long as it was in her territory when it was raised, then the requirements are fulfilled and it forever after can be used in this way.

    Perhaps as a capstone power it is supposed to be that powerful?

  • #2
    It basically enables the vampire to give any animal it used Raise the Familiar in the demarcated borders to use Feral Whispers on other animals outside it’s borders. A vampire can already command it’s familiar over any distance already or take command of a swarm of creatures within a target area. Normal animals avoid the area designated in the Lord of the Land ritual unless commanded by the domain holder but a familiar issuing orders would count as an invitation, so to speak.

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    • #3
      My read on the intent is that, within the territory demarcated by Lord of the Land, the vampire's normal ability to ask their familiar what they perceive from any distance is supercharged to a direct sharing of senses, such that Raise the Familiar expands from a source of sentries to a source of extra eyes while the vampire is within their domain; as part of this, the vampire gains the ability to use their familiars as relays for conveying instructions through Feral Whispers, which last as long as an animal is within the vampire's territory as part of the other effects of the Discipline.

      The fact that the power technically stretches beyond its listed duration as long as you don't leave seems like a pretty clear indicator that the read is "within her territory, the vampire can use these benefits through her familiar." It's a similar expansion in potential complexity to Summon the Hunt.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #4
        I agree with Satchel. You can use familiar to spread feral whisper just within the Vampire territory

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Marcus View Post
          I agree with Satchel. You can use familiar to spread feral whisper just within the Vampire territory
          I should clarify that my read is "while the vampire is within their territory, their remote connection to their familiars is expanded in these ways" — the tradeoff is that the vampire has to stick to a relatively small area to use this benefit and their range of influence is only extended in the specific field of "talk to animals."


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
            I should clarify that my read is "while the vampire is within their territory, their remote connection to their familiars is expanded in these ways" — the tradeoff is that the vampire has to stick to a relatively small area to use this benefit and their range of influence is only extended in the specific field of "talk to animals."

            Sorry I'm a bit lost here. Why just "talk to Animals" while the power description states:

            ...and use that animal (the Familiar) to deliver commands using Feral Whispers (that actually allows to command other animals) to other creatures
            .

            Seems to me that here it's clearely stated that, as long as both the vampire and the familiar are within the territory, the vampire can use the familiar (at any range while he is inside such territory) to use, through him, Feral Whispers, actually beeing able to commands, other animals as if the familiar was a transmitter/antenna.
            Last edited by Marcus; 03-29-2019, 02:37 PM.

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            • #7
              I think Marcus is right. To put it simply, the vampire can use his familiars to issue commands to other animals in his territory in a very similar way as the Chain of Command Devotion would work for issuing commands to humans through an intermediary. Except in this case the vampire can issue his commands to his familiar in an instant at any distance, after which the familiar relays that command to the animals surrounding him in the territory through the use of Feral Whispers.
              Last edited by Ventrue Life; 03-29-2019, 12:52 PM.

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              • #8
                I agree with everyone else. Within the effected area you can do extra stuff with an animal you have used Rase the Familiar on.

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                • #9
                  I was originally thinking that the consensus here is what was meant, even if sloppily worded, though I'm now leaning towards the "as written" power simply because of the power level vs other level 5 powers.
                  Auspex: Go anywhere and see/hear anything that is happening on the earth whenever you feel like it, and no one can stop or harm you in any way.
                  Dominate: Turn a person into a meat puppet for nights per success.
                  Majesty: Make strangers/enemies love you enough to suicide for you.
                  Nightmare: Scare someone to literal death and/or Final Death, with other nasty things if they survive.
                  Obfuscate: it's cool but I don't think it's at the same level as the others.
                  Protean: Indefinitely become utterly invulnerable to everything save Fire and Sunlight while still retaining diminished offensive capability.

                  I'm starting to think that the wording was intentional and meant to modify Raise the Familiar, as other higher end powers tend to modify and empower previous levels.
                  Edit: Also looking at Undying Familiar Devotion which also affects Familiars raised with that power active but not affecting those raised before it.
                  Last edited by Rathamus; 03-29-2019, 04:49 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rathamus View Post
                    I was originally thinking that the consensus here is what was meant, even if sloppily worded, though I'm now leaning towards the "as written" power simply because of the power level vs other level 5 powers.
                    Auspex: Go anywhere and see/hear anything that is happening on the earth whenever you feel like it, and no one can stop or harm you in any way.
                    Dominate: Turn a person into a meat puppet for nights per success.
                    Majesty: Make strangers/enemies love you enough to suicide for you.
                    Nightmare: Scare someone to literal death and/or Final Death, with other nasty things if they survive.
                    Obfuscate: it's cool but I don't think it's at the same level as the others.
                    Protean: Indefinitely become utterly invulnerable to everything save Fire and Sunlight while still retaining diminished offensive capability.

                    I'm starting to think that the wording was intentional and meant to modify Raise the Familiar, as other higher end powers tend to modify and empower previous levels.
                    Let me just argue about Obfuscate 5:

                    1. You can definitely disappear and let others disappear at no cost.
                    2. You can make an exit door become the very wall, and a window through the abyss become the exit door. The stairs become a column making a place virtually impossible to escape.
                    3. You can change the aspect of an enemy into a Friend of the intruder and, even worst, turn a friend into an enemy. I tested this several times with the same party of PCs. The "worst" (for them) results was: I ride the wave tearing him apart (attacking another PC). So satisfactory indeed as everytime were PCs decision not mine. I really enjoy to rule Obfuscate 5 indeed.

                    Maybe the weakest here is Nightmare 5 as I'm not even sure it applies to Kindred but just to living beings.
                    Last edited by Marcus; 03-29-2019, 05:03 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Marcus View Post


                      Sorry I'm a bit lost here. Why just "talk to Animals"
                      As in "the only power of Animalism Lord of the Land serves to extend the range of is the one that lets you talk to animals, and only through the medium of another animal at that."

                      Everything else the power enhances is entirely confined to the demarcated zone, which, combined with the necessity of the vampire being within the building/block/castle territory, makes the theoretically infinite range extension pretty unproblematic as far as anyone worried about it being "overpowered" need be concerned -- yes, you can use a Discipline from across the world, but that power is just "talk to animals," you need two other powers active to set up this range, and it only works to that degree while you're in a stronghold that's expensive to maintain unless you never leave it.

                      By a similar token, Summon the Hunt opens up the ability to use Feral Whispers to give commands through a consumable and/or portable subject/object, in addition to drawing specific types of animal. The odd-numbered powers of Animalism enable Feral Whispers to be used in more complex or remote fashions, which enhances its utility for more distant vampires who haven't developed Obfuscate or specialized Devotions to extend their reach.


                      Resident Lore-Hound
                      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
                        I think Marcus is right. To put it simply, the vampire can use his familiars to issue commands to other animals in his territory in a very similar way as the Chain of Command Devotion would work for issuing commands to humans through an intermediary. Except in this case the vampire can issue his commands to his familiar in an instant at any distance, after which the familiar relays that command to the animals surrounding him in the territory through the use of Feral Whispers.
                        Which animals would those be precisely? The animals that are prohibited from entering the borders established with the activation of Lord of the Land unless under the command of the vampire who activated it, making Feral Whispers usage on them by familiars pointless. Or the other familiar animal inhabitants who can be contacted and commanded by the vampire from anywhere in the world already? Again with the pointless redundancy.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tsusasi View Post

                          Which animals would those be precisely? The animals that are prohibited from entering the borders established with the activation of Lord of the Land unless under the command of the vampire who activated it, making Feral Whispers usage on them by familiars pointless. Or the other familiar animal inhabitants who can be contacted and commanded by the vampire from anywhere in the world already? Again with the pointless redundancy.
                          No. You're missing the point I guess:

                          1. Create your territory (a park, a castle, whatever)
                          2. Any animals running away
                          3. Summon animals (animalism 3). Now you have animals in your territory.
                          4. Go to whatever you want.
                          5. Commands your familiars to commands any summoned animals to attacks that intruder while you are safe into your secret/safe place
                          6. Do it for BP weeks or indefinitely as long as you're staying in your territory

                          Where the hell is the pointless redundancy?
                          Last edited by Marcus; 03-29-2019, 05:56 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Marcus View Post
                            Where the hell is the pointless redundancy?
                            Intruders are less of a problem in a place that people need to roll to enter uninvited and suffer a penalty to all their actions even if they make it in, for one thing.


                            Resident Lore-Hound
                            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                            • #15
                              Don't forget the penalty to dice pools of anyone you didn't invite in. Lord of the Land gives you a place where you are the boss, it's in the name.
                              The only time it's underpowered is when you're not there or you're foolish enough to invite the wrong person in in which case you deserve what you get.
                              Edit: Clearly there's a need for a Majesty/Animalism devotion that gives you the benefits of Lord of the land when you use Idol.
                              Last edited by Live Bait; 03-29-2019, 06:19 PM.

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