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  • #16
    I mostly run games on roll20, and use electronic means even in person (I'll have a laptop or whatnot), so I tend to be all about letting players keep their PDFs open so they can quickly get at what they need.



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    • #17
      Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
      And considering how fucking expensive the tabletop roleplaying games hobby has gotten, it's not really a surprise that most players don't own all the rulebooks.
      They were saying that if someone did purchase -a- book, under Graylion's perspective of things they shouldn't be able to use it.

      Basically, this was a gotcha question from the start, which should have been obvious by the, 'I will withhold my comments and reasons until the discussion has started.' comment but sometimes you open yourself to talking to new people and sometimes they're just going to judge you for it.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by zee PaTrick View Post
        So People spent their own money on resources to play a game that you now say they cannot use to play said game?
        Not even close, in my honest opinion you have missed the point and not even discussed the actual operation. Any player that joins my game is well versed with the table rules before hand. The real point of my table rules in role playing games is role playing. So how long does a session last for you? And how long does your turn last? We encourage the use of the books, we obsess over the rules, their meaning, loopholes and all of those. However during your turn you own the spotlight, your character has the spotlight. The spotlight is not used for rules banter or modifier searching. The player makes decisions and describes the actions while spending time in character and in the story.

        I understand this table is not for all types of players but this is one of the reasons I am opening this thread of discussion to see who else has this or similar approaches.

        best regards.
        Last edited by Graylion; 04-17-2019, 04:58 PM.



        Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
        Current Focus
        Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
        Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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        • #19
          Originally posted by nofather View Post

          They were saying that if someone did purchase -a- book, under Graylion's perspective of things they shouldn't be able to use it.

          Basically, this was a gotcha question from the start, which should have been obvious by the, 'I will withhold my comments and reasons until the discussion has started.' comment but sometimes you open yourself to talking to new people and sometimes they're just going to judge you for it.
          I do find that this style of game tends to be the minority. I have painfully set through games where everything stops to iron out several modifiers with no roleplaying. For me this may as well be a video game and push the attack button while chaining combos.

          Best regard



          Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
          Current Focus
          Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
          Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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          • #20
            I think this entire way of viewing things is losing the forest for the trees.

            Open books at the table don't stop Role Playing from happening. If your players are getting distracted... they're going to get distracted by something. The books, their phones, the music on, what's out the window... focusing on what's distracting them is missing the real problem: why are they getting distracted in the first place?

            You need the players invested in what's going on. Not everyone gets invested in the same way.

            That's why we have a wide variety of games that stretch from a single page of mechanics, to hundreds of pages of mechanics. It's not about "role playing vs. roll playing vs. rule playing." that is, honestly, just a dick way of trying to make your preferences sound superior. It's about finding games that suit what you want. People that get into games with lots of rules might actually enjoy what you find tedious. Not everyone is trying to force story or narrative to happen, and only see it as a benefit of emergent properties after the mechanics and game part of RPG is settled.

            Find games and groups that have the same goals as you, rather than trying to make it sound like something that works just fine for other people isn't doing it right.

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            • #21
              I take it that you as ST accept responsibility for knowing the dice pools for all the disciplines your players have, do you have a reference sheet or are you one of those people who can remember things like that of the top of your head? If the latter I envy you, I have a hard enough time remembering the dice pools for my own disciplines.

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              • #22
                Both as ST and PC I have to look up stuff. Over the last 25 years I've played with 7 different versions of Celerity (including LARP versions). As a player I want the ability to look up what I need to look up to have my moment. World of Darkness, New World of Darkness, Chronicles of Darkness, Exalted, Aberrant similar systems with enough variances that can screw you up when you've played them all and you suddenly have cross system rules stuck in your head. Of course I allow my players the opportunity to look up stuff. Of course I want to look up stuff.

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                • #23
                  I see books being available as a resource. I consider PDFs to be a godsend since they're often text searchable, have bookmarks, and let me highlight important areas with notes.

                  I don't mind if players have their own books, though I do encourage consolidating important information for themselves. I try to do that for myself, actually.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    I think this entire way of viewing things is losing the forest for the trees.

                    Open books at the table don't stop Role Playing from happening. If your players are getting distracted... they're going to get distracted by something. The books, their phones, the music on, what's out the window... focusing on what's distracting them is missing the real problem: why are they getting distracted in the first place?

                    You need the players invested in what's going on. Not everyone gets invested in the same way.

                    That's why we have a wide variety of games that stretch from a single page of mechanics, to hundreds of pages of mechanics. It's not about "role playing vs. roll playing vs. rule playing." that is, honestly, just a dick way of trying to make your preferences sound superior. It's about finding games that suit what you want. People that get into games with lots of rules might actually enjoy what you find tedious. Not everyone is trying to force story or narrative to happen, and only see it as a benefit of emergent properties after the mechanics and game part of RPG is settled.

                    Find games and groups that have the same goals as you, rather than trying to make it sound like something that works just fine for other people isn't doing it right.
                    Not at the table, on YOUR Turn while you are acting, role-playing and describing the amazing things your character is doing. Open the books before your turn, after your turn but not while you are on stage and have the spotlight.

                    Best regards



                    Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                    Current Focus
                    Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                    Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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                    • #25
                      What do players do when suddenly their plans for their turn change due to the actions of the player right before said turn? I've seen it happen more than once.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
                        I take it that you as ST accept responsibility for knowing the dice pools for all the disciplines your players have, do you have a reference sheet or are you one of those people who can remember things like that of the top of your head? If the latter I envy you, I have a hard enough time remembering the dice pools for my own disciplines.
                        Character sheets are still present and very much up to date. If you have an ability with a static dice pool then it has that dice pool beside it.

                        Not as easy with Mage, which is by far the hardest to run like this. For example if you have been a Venture for 2 months you are not stubling through the book on your turn going OK I can issue a 4 word command oh wait what's my dice pool. On your turn you are describing the bending of your subjects will as you stare deep into their eyes.

                        Before your turn if you are reading the Charmed condition as a refresher, that us great everyone at the table wants you yo do that.

                        Best regards



                        Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                        Current Focus
                        Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                        Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by zee PaTrick View Post
                          Both as ST and PC I have to look up stuff. Over the last 25 years I've played with 7 different versions of Celerity (including LARP versions). As a player I want the ability to look up what I need to look up to have my moment. World of Darkness, New World of Darkness, Chronicles of Darkness, Exalted, Aberrant similar systems with enough variances that can screw you up when you've played them all and you suddenly have cross system rules stuck in your head. Of course I allow my players the opportunity to look up stuff. Of course I want to look up stuff.
                          I agree 100%, the only focus or restriction I place is do it before or after your turn. I find that the players actually are more comfortable with their abilities and associated conditions.

                          Best regards



                          Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                          Current Focus
                          Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                          Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paradim View Post
                            I see books being available as a resource. I consider PDFs to be a godsend since they're often text searchable, have bookmarks, and let me highlight important areas with notes.

                            I don't mind if players have their own books, though I do encourage consolidating important information for themselves. I try to do that for myself, actually.
                            Agreed, everyone at the table wants everyone else to have the info and we love pdfs. What most do not enjoy is a player who turn to act has played a Ventrue for many sessions and still does not have his act together.

                            Not sure why I'm picking on Ventrue today?

                            Best regards



                            Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                            Current Focus
                            Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                            Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by zee PaTrick View Post
                              What do players do when suddenly their plans for their turn change due to the actions of the player right before said turn? I've seen it happen more than once.
                              You are dead on, this is one of the challenges but having a well defined character with good notes and all pre-determined dice pools already noted helps.

                              For example the current participants in this thread most with 500+ "posts ranging well beyond that as Storytellers do any of you really need to look up

                              Blush of life
                              Physical intensity
                              Keen Senses
                              Clash of Wills
                              Healing
                              Feeding
                              Ghouling
                              Embrace

                              I am guessing no, I could be wrong bug I think you got it and in turn can talk your players through it without even cracking a page.

                              These are harder...
                              Predatory Aura (a good note card)
                              Frenzy (a good note card is way better)
                              Humanity & Banes (I have a cheat sheet)

                              So we are talking about combat, Disciplines / Devotions

                              Blood sorcery from the blasphemy supplement is complex, hard not to reference.

                              But again only on your turn.

                              Best regards



                              Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                              Current Focus
                              Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                              Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                                ... Snipped...

                                It's not about "role playing vs. roll playing vs. rule playing." that is, honestly, just a dick way of trying to make your preferences sound superior. It's about finding games that suit what you want. People that get into games with lots of rules might actually enjoy what you find tedious. Not everyone is trying to force story or narrative to happen, and only see it as a benefit of emergent properties after the mechanics and game part of RPG is settled.

                                Find games and groups that have the same goals as you, rather than trying to make it sound like something that works just fine for other people isn't doing it right.
                                At no point am I trying to force my narrative on you or anyone. If that is your take away than you have my apologies, as that has never been my intention. You are entitled to your opinions and gaming style. For me, my tables and my players Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Rule playing is a very important focus, not a gimic line. For me it is a statement of over 30 years of gaming history.

                                What I am doing is having a discussion to see if anyone else has similiar views. Not right not wrong, many paths. And I will definitely share what we enjoy or do not enjoy, just as you have.

                                I welcome any descriptions opening the book that benefits role-playing not a prolonging an Active players turn for the toll of mechanics. Again we love our mechanics, powers, loopholes, game breaking combos that makes me sit back with the look of oh my that is going to be a challenge. We brainstorm these things and hash them out before or after game.

                                I had a rules lawyer in my last VtR game and it was a hard adjustment for him, but he has evolved, loved his character became even more invested and has went on to run his own games.

                                Many paths.

                                Best regards



                                Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                                Current Focus
                                Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                                Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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