Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Storytellers do you allow...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

    That's... not how economics work. Increased demand only leads to increased price if you can't increase supply. Supply basically isn't a problem in RPGs except of collectors editions, so increased demand shouldn't increase price.

    In 2000, when D&D 3e came out, the PHB was $20. In 2014 when D&D 5e came out, the PHB was $50 (though also slightly longer). That is a big increase in price... though D&D is a bit unique. At the same time a movie ticket in the US in 2000 averaged $5.39, and in 2014 it jumped to $8.17. Demand on movies didn't exactly increase... but there's a significant increase in price.

    Most RPG companies have not be able to increase their prices, because they're not D&D and everyone's going to buy D&D because it's got such a huge market share. VtM Revised was $30, and VtR 2e standard hardcover is... $40. Same period of time, around the same amount of book as the PHB... way less increase in price.
    But it can be how marketing works and I never stated it would be the only factor affecting price. Marketing, good and bad will always be a factor for price.

    Best regards



    Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
    Current Focus
    Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
    Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
      Just as a personal note, if possible can you try to keep your replies to at least 1:1 posts? Responding to five posts, even directly in a row, is kind of a pain in the forum software.
      I apologize for the multiple posts. Until I replace my laptop I am stuck responding on my smartphone. Sometimes I can use another computer but most times no.

      Best regards



      Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
      Current Focus
      Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
      Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

        But if you don't want to include talking about "no books open at the table at all," in the discussion, why bring it up? Someone played that way? OK... so why shouldn't my general responses address that too?

        I brought it up as an extreme counterpoint. You are welcome to talk about it as you like, but we both agree as I as already stated it was a bit much. I just wanted to make sure you know it is not one of my table rules.

        Best regards
        Last edited by Graylion; 04-19-2019, 05:01 AM.



        Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
        Current Focus
        Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
        Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

          Not always, but the most common. I have a friend that was a theatre major in college, and was used to acting and improv games, and jumped right into GMing D&D 3e rather than trying it as a player first... and did a great job because he was really good at leaning on those "rules lawyers" to encourage them to use their knowledge to positive ends of empowering their self image and keeping the game going despite not having strong system mastery.



          It kind of depends where you want to decide is my 'start.'

          I personally consider it playing historical war-games and getting into the side I was playing as. My first RPG was WEG's Star Wars d6, which I was more in a "oh cool, playing Star Wars!" kick than really getting into character... Vampire the Dark Ages (the 2e one) was my next RPG and... the only thing to be proud of there was that I realized that we were playing the game in a really dumb way so when I started STing myself I paid a bit more attention to what I was doing.
          Very nice I love the original black and red Dark Ages book! I have one that is falling to pieces. WEG Star Wars, what a blast from the past. Wasn't that around the time Travler had stronger legs as a system?

          My start was D&D basic the white and blue set them on to the newer red box, ad&d, car wars, gurps, merp iron crown, and many more.

          I loved Trinity when it came out because of the fixed target number and variable successes instead of masquerades variable target number and variable successes, just seemed like a much stronger approach.

          Best regards



          Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
          Current Focus
          Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
          Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
            Just as a personal note, if possible can you try to keep your replies to at least 1:1 posts? Responding to five posts, even directly in a row, is kind of a pain in the forum software.



            But if you don't want to include talking about "no books open at the table at all," in the discussion, why bring it up? Someone played that way? OK... so why shouldn't my general responses address that too?



            So....

            How do you think people actually become well versed in the game? They play. The more you play, the less you need the books open in front of you, because you've learned the best way: in process. Stopping people from opening the book in play is making it harder for them get to the place where you want them to be. Even someone that can memorize the book cover to cover needs to play the game to actually be fluent in it; rote memory is not mastery.



            Um, I'm a shitty actor. You don't get to effectively disagree with that. What makes me a good role-player is that I'm a decent author. That's how I approach characters, and what lets me get inside their heads, and then play them. One time I met up with someone I had been playing with online in a purely text based game at a LARP and they were shocked by how stunted my LARP character was, when I was put in a situation where I didn't have time to consider my actions a bit longer than the speed the LARP was moving at. He almost didn't believe it was the same person he'd been playing with for years online due to how radically different my comfort with portraying characters changed with the environment.

            When it comes to TT play, things move slow enough for me to not get hung up like I can at LARPs, because I have time to think the way I want to think, and translate it to the format and feel comfortable. But my groups tend to be happy when I spend more time in third person than first person... any attempt to sound like anyone but me turns out hilariously bad at best.



            And if you insist on this lens, you're harming your ability to understand other people and how they approach the game, and how to approach them to have fun. Because that's the ultimate point here: having fun.

            We're all role-playing. Even the people that pause role-play to figure out all the mechanics. But role-playing isn't acting, or we'd just call it Acting Games (well that, and those are a thing already). Acting is one way to embody a role, but not the only way.



            Sure. Maybe we will sometime... maybe we have... I tend to avoid saying too much about myself that would make that easy to know.



            While there is a trend in game design to have story first games being mechanically light games, and game play first games mechanics heavy games, they're not the same thing.

            One of the things that keeps me around the ST family of games, is that they try to balance a bit of both so people that want story first play can get their fun at the same table as people more interesting in game play first, where a lot of other designers push towards one or the other too hard for my tastes.



            The only thing that I care about regarding post counts, are things like my opening request on forum system stuff where my greater time here actually means something.



            And yet you're disregarding the more salient issue: how it sounds to other people.



            Great questions are generally... more transparent in their intent, and more open ended. "Do people agree with me?" isn't a great question. I don't really think of this as much of a great discussion... it's just one I'm feeling like participating in still. It is not lost on me that you've skipped quite a few things I've posted in defense of having the books open in front of me in my "turn" as a good thing for my role-playing... it seems like a great discussion would focus more on that.



            If you're phrased it more like this the first time, I wouldn't have responded the way I did.
            The Comment was casual and to illustrate that the style I am discussing has worked for 3 years of VtR, it has merits and to provide some examples. I did not realize each line would be picked apart.

            ... That's a question not discussion.
            ... Not everyone's brain and body work the same, and getting all purist about doing everything on paper isn't always a matter of personal taste.
            (not even sure I understand how we arrived at this comment. But my take away is the word Purist.

            ... It's not about "role playing vs. roll playing vs. rule playing." that is, honestly, just a dick way of trying to make your preferences sound superior.

            My take away dick and superior. See it is sometimes hard to read or hear the words after "dick, superior, purist" , So here I feel you were very judgemental and undervalued a statement of high importance to me. The same one in my signature that has been with me a very long time. But that's OK it takes time to know and understand others. I am trying understand you and l your heavy handed approach (my opinion) or maybe just maybe it's a "heavy armed" approach. Please note e en though I point this out I have thick skin and take very little offense.

            ... And too me it's a giant red flag of One True Wayism. You might like how it sounds, but you agree with yourself. To people that disagree with you, it sounds extremely self-aggrandizing, pompous, and deriding to other styles. Again painting me in a box because I'm presenting a less popular or minority view on gaming. It's OK you don't agree I started this thread in the hopes of having someone say man I find that same problem let's talk about it. Or having someone say i can't see how that would work, which is kind of what you have done. So here we are.

            ... And maybe because I'm posting from my darn phone I have not put enough word in the thread, I accept that lesson learned.

            Best regards
            Last edited by Graylion; 04-19-2019, 05:03 AM.



            Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
            Current Focus
            Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
            Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

            Comment


            • #51
              Based on your request I am trying something new. I copied a post over to a note app and am typing my response there. Still a lot and a pain but better than the tiny damn box on the forum page. I can not always use this method but I will try.

              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
              So....
              How do you think people actually become well versed in the game? They play. The more you play, the less you need the books open in front of you, because you've learned the best way: in process. Stopping people from opening the book in play is making it harder for them get to the place where you want them to be. Even someone that can memorize the book cover to cover needs to play the game to actually be fluent in it; rote memory is not mastery.
              I agree people do learn by playing. Once again I say turn or 20% of your time and you wrap it in I have stopped them from gaming. You mention conventions ealier so perfect when you stand on the floor and look across the field of play some people do it automatically. When they are the focus of attention they close their book, face the GM and or other players and take their turn. I would lay money you have seen this happen. At no point would I recommend memorizing the book cover to cover. This is an extreme spin on my style.

              By the way you mentioned conventions and I agree I would not recommend this style st convention, with a group of new players, or breaking in a new system. I had an assortment of players, old school D&D, vampire the Masquerade, 3.5 rules lawyer, all systems role player, just to name a few. We laughed, we tensed up, we argued, we had loads of fun and investment in the game with books closed on your turn. In my group it worked for 3 years, my opinion the players actually spent more time to make sure they had the "" important" items on their sheet. Some never had more than their vtr sheet, other had large amounts of notes. In my opinion they learned the "rules" faster than previous games with the crutch "book" open.

              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
              Um, I'm a shitty actor. You don't get to effectively disagree with that. What makes me a good role-player is that I'm a decent author. That's how I approach characters, and what lets me get inside their heads, and then play them. One time I met up with someone I had been playing with online in a purely text based game at a LARP and they were shocked by how stunted my LARP character was, when I was put in a situation where I didn't have time to consider my actions a bit longer than the speed the LARP was moving at. He almost didn't believe it was the same person he'd been playing with for years online due to how radically different my comfort with portraying characters changed with the environment.

              When it comes to TT play, things move slow enough for me to not get hung up like I can at LARPs, because I have time to think the way I want to think, and translate it to the format and feel comfortable. But my groups tend to be happy when I spend more time in third person than first person... any attempt to sound like anyone but me turns out hilariously bad at best.

              ...
              And if you insist on this lens, you're harming your ability to understand other people and how they approach the game, and how to approach them to have fun. Because that's the ultimate point here: having fun.

              ...
              We're all role-playing. Even the people that pause role-play to figure out all the mechanics. But role-playing isn't acting, or we'd just call it Acting Games (well that, and those are a thing already). Acting is one way to embody a role, but not the only way.
              OK fair enough you consider yourself a shitty actor. And I consider you and all players actors. I have no care if they are good or bad. Another thing I have always loved about white wolf, storyteller, sas, Storypath and I find it leans towards story first mechanic second (my opinion). My clues are the many names of story in the titles, GMs, scenes, acts, chonicles, arc, and so on. So in this session, role the credits the Ventrue was played by... Insert player name here. And I Iean on the term Role Playing game, to play a role in a game. I think you are looking at the word actor from an extreme vantage.

              I am not sure how my using the term actor to describe players hurts anything. I am not suggesting perfects lines, and moch voices for all. As I have mentioned above and in previous posts, players and their characters and my story are the focus of the game. Many things can coexist. I can present the major story points being offered while allowing the players to weave in what they want to accomplish as well (Aspirations). And yes fun is absolutely the goal, if it is not fun we are not going to do it or do it for long?

              I remember my first LARP it was set in AL Capone gangster type game and I was terrible. LARP is not my first choice or even second or third for gaming. I am far more comfortable with it today but I prefer TT.

              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
              And yet you're disregarding the more salient issue: how it sounds to other people.
              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
              Great questions are generally... more transparent in their intent, and more open ended. "Do people agree with me?" isn't a great question. I don't really think of this as much of a great discussion... it's just one I'm feeling like participating in still. It is not lost on me that you've skipped quite a few things I've posted in defense of having the books open in front of me in my "turn" as a good thing for my role-playing... it seems like a great discussion would focus more on that.
              I had an idea to post the thread ask the question and a day later explain what my house rule was and see where the discussion went. That was my intent, that is what I did and that is where we are. If you are reading more into it than that you are gifting me with intent far beyond my weary and tired aspirations for a long work week. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I don't guarantee 100% clarity, Grammer, spelling or anything like that. I like a simple approach and complex games. May be conflicting terms but that is who I am.

              You have posted in defense of the common style game that happens the majority of the time. Wouldn't really need to be a discussion if I was suggested we do what everyone does would it? Have you allowed yourself for one moment to consider this style could work? Have you considered what it would take to try it for 4 weeks or one month. I get it this is not the style for you, but what if? Again I already know that the common styles work I have seen them all my life. I'm not trying to convince you this style is right for everyone, for you but I think there are some that would prefer it. So far on this forum I am proved to be wrong. But I'm an optimist my gaming glass is half full, of dice ha, I'm getting punch happy time to sleep. OK Goin to try and paste this cross your digital fingers.




              Let's talk about aspirations. They can be short or long term. You could accomplish them this session or work towards their resolution (gain a beat). I am pleased the the Storypath system has carried them over, it is a great move!

              By the way aspiration are great for. Players says hey I want to open a brothel. We have a side bar that he will touch on it this session but we will not go to deep. At the end of the session he will add it to his aspirations and I will prep something more filling than on the fly. This style only works with the groups buy in. I can't to it alone it is a group and table effort. Aspirations work great for filling in the blanks for the next session or two.

              Best regards

              Edit
              I will reply to your post #45 tomorrow I am really tired.
              Last edited by Graylion; 04-19-2019, 05:07 AM.



              Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
              Current Focus
              Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
              Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

              Comment

              Working...
              X