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Suggest new Rituals miracles and Devotions.

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  • Suggest new Rituals miracles and Devotions.

    Some Ideas I had for a bit

    A ritual to curse someone to rise as a revenant


    for Devotions one question

    Can cruac not be used in devotions anymore as many of the devotions with it looked cool.



  • #2
    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
    Can cruac not be used in devotions anymore as many of the devotions with it looked cool.
    Just because there aren't any examples doesn't mean it's not intended to be possible. It's just difficult to come up with ideas since Crúac (and Theban Sorcery) has no unifying themes that can be used for Devotions. You'd have to focus on the ritual action or on a very broad blood sorcery theme, and such things might be better off as Merits instead.

    Edit: First edition only had four examples, two of which were in the Circle book and feels more like they have Crúac as a prerequisite because it's a Circle thing rather than a Crúac thing. Arcane Sight from 1e core would be better off as a Merit that modifies regular Auspex use, imo.
    Last edited by Tessie; 04-16-2019, 04:15 PM.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      Disciplines and Blood Sorcery operate on diametrically opposed principles IMO.
      Disciplines are nearly innate powers which can just be tossed around with at will and with ease while Blood Sorcery requires study, preparation, time, and meticulous execution. This is represented in-game with Disciplines being almost always an instant action and Blood Sorcery being always extended action with bonuses for extra time, complexity, etc.

      I am not aware of the 1E examples but It doesn't seem right to me.

      Cursing someone to rise as a Revenant does seem very Cruac to me, though I probably wouldn't allow it to circumvent the Humanity hit.

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      • #4
        Blood Sorcery is made of of Ritual Disciplines, so yes, it can be used in Devotions if it makes sense.

        EDIT: And I've converted Arcane Sight, if you're interested. Not sure which devotions specifically in 1e you liked.
        Last edited by falco1029; 04-19-2019, 03:28 AM.



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        • #5
          Like I said, due to the nonunified themes of Blood Sorcery you're kinda stuck with Devotions that either modify the ritual action (perhaps adding Celerity to decrease the time between rolls) or work from an extremely broad Blood Sorcery theme (such as Arcane Sight that basically grants you info about Blood Sorceries, if that's even necessary with 2e's beefed up Auspex).
          Either way I think both examples I gave works best as Merits that modifies existing Disciplines (see Swarm-Form and Claws of the Unholy) rather than Devotions that generally adds new powers. If you want a new power that actually does something by itself you're generally best off making it a Ritual.

          Cursing someone into becoming a Revenant if they die within a set time would definitely be a breaking point, but not an automatic humanity loss like an Embrace since it's much less personal. I'd put it at Humanity 1 at casting regardless if it actually happens or not just to not have to deal with postponed or multiple breaking points.


          Bloodline: The Stygians
          Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
          Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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          • #6
            Actually I think cursing someone to rise as a Revenant would be something the Lancea et Sanctum would do to “deserving” humans and/or their ghouls, uplifting them almost immediately afterwards, and baptizing them into the congregation.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
              Actually I think cursing someone to rise as a Revenant would be something the Lancea et Sanctum would do to “deserving” humans and/or their ghouls, uplifting them almost immediately afterwards, and baptizing them into the congregation.
              Why not just Embrace them directly? Without house rules it still costs a dot of Humanity to uplift Revenants so it's not like it would be less taxing on anyone involved. Besides, what Lancea et Sanctum wants to do and what Theban Sorcery can do is not a causal relationship. Asking "does this fit Theban Sorcery" is more relevant than "does this fit Lancea et Sanctum".


              Bloodline: The Stygians
              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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              • #8
                Why not just Embrace them directly?

                Why is a Posthumous Embrace possible at all? Answer: It doesn't matter. The developers thought it would be cool so they incorporated mechanics for it. The same answer applies. It doesn't matter why the Lancea et Sanctum uses this hypothetical ritual or not because it's a houserule suggestion.
                Maybe the LS in that setting elevated the standard Embrace vs. a Posthumous Embrace as spiritually significant.


                Without house rules it still costs a dot of Humanity to uplift Revenants so it's not like it would be less taxing on anyone involved.

                Who said anything about waiving the Humanity cost? Not me. And it's still a houserule because this hypothetical ritual doesn't appear in the core books or official supplements.


                Besides, what Lancea et Sanctum wants to do and what Theban Sorcery can do is not a causal relationship.


                Since every instance of a prophet, Jesus or his disciples brought someone back to life was considered miraculous, and Theban Sorcery is described as the performance of dark miracles, and Theban Sorcery rites are called miracles, a posthumous embrace ritual to bring someone back as a vampire qualifies. Especially since they already have a ritual where a Theban sorceror can temporarily bring a sentient person back to life.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                  Who said anything about waiving the Humanity cost? Not me. And it's still a houserule because this hypothetical ritual doesn't appear in the core books or official supplements.
                  That was just a preemptive answer. I didn't direct it at anyone.

                  Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                  Why is a Posthumous Embrace possible at all? Answer: It doesn't matter. The developers thought it would be cool so they incorporated mechanics for it. The same answer applies. It doesn't matter why the Lancea et Sanctum uses this hypothetical ritual or not because it's a houserule suggestion.
                  Maybe the LS in that setting elevated the standard Embrace vs. a Posthumous Embrace as spiritually significant.
                  Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                  Since every instance of a prophet, Jesus or his disciples brought someone back to life was considered miraculous, and Theban Sorcery is described as the performance of dark miracles, and Theban Sorcery rites are called miracles, a posthumous embrace ritual to bring someone back as a vampire qualifies. Especially since they already have a ritual where a Theban sorceror can temporarily bring a sentient person back to life.
                  Who said anything about posthumous Embraces? What you're describing is less cursing someone into becoming a revenant and more like raising a body into becoming a revenant. Perhaps you should explain your premise like I did when I gave input to the theoretical ritual.


                  Bloodline: The Stygians
                  Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                  Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                  • #10
                    I was thinking of the Revenant Curse as something the Circle could use on say self righteous hunters.

                    As its definitely a tribulation.


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                    • #11

                      I have been low-key tinkering with Threnodies for a little while because I really like the aesthetics of musical vampire gutter magic. The idea is that a Threnody is more flexible and more powerful than a Discipline, but still constrained by a Discipline's themes.

                      The basic system I've worked out is this: several themes comprise each Discipline group. Each of those themes is embodied as a Threnody Path, composed of five rituals. Once you purchase the Path, you are able to purchase rituals in any order, though each ritual uses a Discipine as a prerequisite. I'm not sure about costs, but am thinking three to four experiences for a Path and one experience for a ritual. I figure that rituals and unrelated Disciplines can be combined into further rituals/Devotions.

                      One of the Nightmare Paths I've been toying with is created for creating Revenants. Keep in mind this isn't even a first draft:

                      Path of Work in Progress
                      1. Evil Eye - Equipment takes fragile or volitile condition. Some number of Social Merits are blocked. If you don't want to RP the day-by-day, or the ritual was used on an NPC, the effects can be modeled by taking 2 Bashing Damage or expending 1 WP per day affected.
                      2. Wither - Saps dots of resistance traits from the victim. At some point gives lethargic condition.
                      3. Curse - Force a bane on a victim or define some action which either goes horribly wrong or the victim always fails.
                      4. Deform - cause horrifying alterations. Too many teeth. Growing from the roof of your mouth. Teeth, growing out the sides of your face. The doll has human eyes. The spider is larger than any spider should be. It is made of skin. The spider has human eyes. (Maybe better combined with Pervert)
                      5. Pervert - Alter the nature of a thing. Environments warp and twist. Fruit becomes poisonous. Flowers cause sleep. Porceline dols fill with lust. Turn the living into stuffed animals. And the dead...

                      I'm actually thinking that maybe a number of Disciplines (excluding the physical ones) might have a "Raise Revanent" ritual, where each ritual brings up a slightly different kind of Revenant. Maybe Obfuscate or Auspex raises shades, Majesty raises obsessives, Dominate basically raises a zombie. Protean maybe just turns living humans into Revenants -- cursing them with vampiric traits as if they were Protean adaptations. Not sure about Animalism to be honest. Some kind of communicable or progressive disease?
                      Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 04-21-2019, 04:30 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Animalism-based, intentionally-created Revenants? That... kind of screams Larvae, doesn't it?


                        I've got a bit of a bad habit of extensively editing my posts after the fact. Please try and bear with me...
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                        • #13
                          Yes I think it does.

                          and I think no one but Ordo Dracul would be interested.


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                          • #14
                            Ideas What Majesty and protean could do together in a devotion

                            obfuscate is often times incorporated into a devotion to well obfuscate a discipline effect

                            Celerity to speed it up.

                            Could Nightmare and Protean turn someone into a Demon.

                            Not in Descent Format

                            just a Hellish looking Beast.
                            Last edited by Prince of the Night; 04-25-2019, 09:25 AM.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                              and I think no one but Ordo Dracul would be interested.
                              Carthians could use an army of larvae to cause some chaos in the streets. The Invictus might use them to scour an area for witnesses, or to hunt down a fugitive.


                              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                              Ideas What Majesty and protean could do together in a devotion
                              The Finest Bordercollie at the Show
                              (Majesty *, Protean ***)
                              Activate when using Beast's Skin to make anyone instantly want to take you home.


                              obfuscate is often times incorporated into a devotion to well obfuscate a discipline effect
                              I feel like an Obfuscate 2 should make a really versitile devotion. Combine with Nightmare 1 to make something foreboding; combine with Majesty 1 to make it enchanting.

                              Maybe (Animalism 4, Nightmare 3) to make items into vectors for delusion. The Prince was once kind and fair. Now she only smiles for the Haunt. She caresses the necklass he gifted her while sentencing "traitors" to death.

                              (Dominate 3, Nightmare 4, Vigor 2) to create a plague of night terrors. Piss off the wrong lick, and you won't be able to hide anywhere. First it was a single ghoul acting strangely. Then it was another. Mistakes and jumpiness. Occasional sobbing. You didn't think anything of it. The mistakes became more frequent. Soon your entire houshold was asleep on its feet, waking screaming, minutes later. When you demanded an explanation, your servants confessed immediately. Each day since, sleep has held no peace for you. You can't hide from what you did. Not even in daysleep.

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