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  • Obfuscate is a pain

    Are there any ways to counter Obfuscate? WoD is the kind of game that's all about surprising your opponents, and the discipline that turns you invisible feels like it should have some weakness. When I read Obfuscate at first, I thought that Animalism counters it because it doesn't mentions animals in a lot of its descriptions (except 3 dots iirc) but my ST doesn't agree with me. Any other ideas?

  • #2
    Obfuscate has a weakness to burning buildings with locked doors and windows. : D

    But seriously, a lot of it comes down to creative use of Disciplines and Clash of Wills. Remind the ST that when it comes down to it, Clash of Wills is more often the correct answer than simply saying no.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
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    • #3
      Any supernatural power that provides increased senses trigger Clash of Wills, but keep in mind that Obfuscate is mind-manipulation not true invisibility, so any power that fortifies your mind from illusions would also provide a Clash of Wills. That alone would make any Obfuscate specialist cautious since it's not perfect against other vampires or supernaturals.

      It also kinda depends what you mean by "counter." What parts of it are you trying to counter? It has plenty of weaknesses built in, since it takes some care to use without it failing on you.

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      • #4
        Auspex is the Discipline that most directly "counters" Obfuscate, and Majesty can also be used as a sort of "soft counter."

        But Obfuscate isn't that strong of an invisibility power. Obfuscate 1 explicitly doesn't work in environments you wouldn't expect another person, so it's not that great for spying on clandestine meetings. Even Obfuscate 3's 1 Vitae enhancement of Face in the Crowd is relatively weak an invisibility power: it adds the dots in Obfuscate to the surprise roll in the event of an attack, but it still allows a roll.


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        • #5
          Since Cloak of Night leaves incidental signs like creaking floors and the like I would allow the Extra Senses Predatory Aspect to Clash of Wills. That gives two disciplines that have a counter to it plus you could argue that they still leave footprints on the right surfaces. Beyond that all I can think of is deploying bead curtains and using a wip in the hope that they will get discovered.
          Edit: video and maybe even mirrors could be argued to be “incidental” if you really want to rule lawyer it but I wouldn’t expect most STs to allow you to get away with exploiting that without some type of complication coming up.
          Last edited by Live Bait; 04-17-2019, 08:10 AM.

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          • #6
            I guess I'll post this here as well.

            If you have Auspex, use that to find the obfuscated vampire.

            If you have Resilience, you might try to outlast your obfuscated enemy. If he attacks you, he will no longer be obfuscated. This is when you can use your Lashing Out ability to shatter his Obfuscate. If you are successful, he can no longer affect you with Obfuscate for that scene. If Lashing Out fails or isn't an option, he can go invisible again by spending another Vitae, but you can keep tanking his hits with Resilience, meaning he'll eventually give up or run out of Vitae, while you try to track him down.

            If you're with a group, I highly recommend you work together as a team with assist rolls to track the obfuscated vampire down. You will lose a couple of turns this way, but once you figure out the location of the vampire, you can all try to Lash Out against him. Only one person needs to win that contest to shatter the Obfuscate effect and then everyone can see the vampire. Keep in mind that if multiple people Lash Out against the obfuscated vampire, you will start to get penalties on your Lashing Out rolls, but it's still worth trying, if nothing else, because it will cost the obfuscated vampire a lot of Willpower to keep counter-lashing (unless he has higher Blood Potency).

            If you have Celerity and you're being attacked by someone obfuscated, it might be worth it to interrupt his attack with a grapple, but you can only do this if you are aware that you're being attacked. If you fail to notice the surprise attack, you aren't allowed to use Celerity to interrupt. Once you have the vampire in a grapple, he can't go invisible and run as long as you keep control over the grapple.

            If you have Majesty, you can try to use Awe and some Social rolls to persuade the obfuscated vampire to either stand down, run away, or face you like a man.

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            • #7
              Environmental clues are a big item: dust or sand on the ground, fog or smoke that swirls from movements, curtains or other items that behave because of the moving air (e.g. candles). If you know the Obfuscated vamp is present, you can ask to attack him under blindness penalties. Similarly, you could attempt to "spot" his presence using other senses as if blind.

              Basically, vamps need to be paranoid about what's going on around them. And they should be, because the scales of the supernatural have fallen from their eyes and they are staring continually into the Darkness.

              Fledgling vamps that have no understanding of Obfuscate or even their own powers are at a severe disadvantage. Elders with potent blood are not. However, elders with potent blood using Obfuscate have a word for fledglings: "snacks."

              --Khanwulf

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              • #8
                Leaning on the indirect clues bit, a truly paranoid Kindred would have various things set up (lines of sand, beaded doorways, etc) to alert them of others, and if they have Dominate they could probably toss out a Dominate attempt every now and then to simply order any potential infiltrators "Show Yourself" seeing as the Dominator doesn't have to look into the victim's eyes, its the other way around.

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                • #9
                  I would never allow to use dominate on an obfuscatex. You need to perceive him. Doninate is a aingle target power. In the case of more than one obfuscated you will have the absurd to dominate a Random person. Definitely not at my table.
                  You probably are thinking about the part: just the dominated need to be able to see the dominator eyes. That is just referring to when the target is wearing sunglasses ecc.
                  Last edited by Marcus; 04-18-2019, 05:45 AM.

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                  • #10
                    I wouldn't allow it either, but it does give me an idea for a Dominate+Majesty Devotion that could do that.
                    Look over a crowd and simply get to use Mesmerize one any one individual under the effects of your Awe without having to actually focusing on them. If you choose none of those you can see or you attempt to do it when no one is visible you'd get to do it on whoever might be Obfuscated, provided they're within your line of sight and isn't consciously attempting not to look at you (which would require an Int+Composure roll penalised by the user's Majesty dots).

                    Otherwise the only time you could theoretically use Mesmerize on an Obfuscated target would be if they're using the first dot and are all alone while you want someone to Dominate for unrelated reasons, or they use Obfuscate 4 and happen to choose a form you wanted to Dominate. Basically situations where you'd already be able to focus on them, not in anticipation of Obfuscating shenanigans.


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                    • #11
                      You could do a custom devotion to purge obfuscate in the room (provoking a clash of wills). You could also instruct your animalism minions to sweep the room (especially if they're a swarm).

                      I'd never permit Dominate to conflict Obfuscate unless the dominator knew the other was present already (and why not lash out?).

                      The other way to deal with the situation--and I suspect this would be common--is to enforce Carthian Law edicts that Obfuscate will not work at party meetings. Or Oaths that purge Obfuscate (and/or other "falsehood") before the court. There may be sorcery rituals that could be employed, or at least developed, to combat Obfuscate however I'd tend to suggest they just create a Clash of Wills dice pool that waits for a target, like some form of warding.

                      --Khanwulf

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
                        You could do a custom devotion to purge obfuscate in the room (provoking a clash of wills). You could also instruct your animalism minions to sweep the room (especially if they're a swarm).

                        I'd never permit Dominate to conflict Obfuscate unless the dominator knew the other was present already (and why not lash out?).

                        --Khanwulf
                        To lash out you have to percieve the tge obfuscated throught Auspex or winning the roll for tracking him by indirect clues. You can't simply lash out if someone disappears in front of you. Well, you can but it would be a personal houserule of yours xD.
                        For the same reason you can't dominate an obfuscated before perceiving him.

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                        • #13
                          Using Feral Infection in an area where an obfuscated person is known or suspected to be, will reveal them.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                            You can't simply lash out if someone disappears in front of you. Well, you can but it would be a personal houserule of yours xD.
                            For the same reason you can't dominate an obfuscated before perceiving him.
                            Actually if they just blatantly disappear in front of you, I would let you lash out because you know they're present. It is very different from walking into a room and wondering if anyone else is in there

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rathamus View Post

                              Actually if they just blatantly disappear in front of you, I would let you lash out because you know they're present. It is very different from walking into a room and wondering if anyone else is in there

                              Ok, but I'm honestly sure that this is not the developer's intentionq. In order to use predatory aura against an obfuscated you must perceive him. Perceiveing is not just being aware he is there.

                              Let's make this example again: in the room, in front of you are disappearing three vampires. Against who are you lashing out? Lash out is an action directed against a very person.
                              By the way, this is my interpretation.
                              Last edited by Marcus; 04-19-2019, 03:54 AM.

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