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Obfuscate is a pain

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
    Environmental clues are a big item: dust or sand on the ground, fog or smoke that swirls from movements, curtains or other items that behave because of the moving air (e.g. candles).
    Uh, no. Obfuscate doesn't render you invisible, it makes you impossible to notice. This, logically, has to include any traces you leave in the environment that could lead to someone discerning your position.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Morangias View Post
      Uh, no. Obfuscate doesn't render you invisible, it makes you impossible to notice. This, logically, has to include any traces you leave in the environment that could lead to someone discerning your position.

      Well the very description of the power states:
      He leaves no scent and makes no sound, though his passing leaves incidental signs, like drifting smoke or
      creaking floorboards.
      so sand and dust on the floor are pretty much acceptable.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Morangias View Post
        Uh, no. Obfuscate doesn't render you invisible, it makes you impossible to notice. This, logically, has to include any traces you leave in the environment that could lead to someone discerning your position.
        "... He leaves no scent and makes no sound, though
        his passing leaves incidental signs, like drifting smoke or creaking floorboards..."

        A good many hours and discussions have been spent over Obfuscate.

        Edit: Damn I just saw the post above nearly the same, apologies.

        Best regards



        Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
        Current Focus
        Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
        Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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        • #19
          Darn, I completely forgot they added that in. I stand corrected.

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          • #20
            Actually I like this implementation as it creates good horror scenes. Smoke drifting away; water that slips lefting a trail while it point towards you. And it allows also no Auspex Kindred to have a chance to deal with Obfuscate.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Marcus View Post
              And it allows also no Auspex Kindred to have a chance to deal with Obfuscate.
              Kindred without Auspex already do have methods of dealing with Obfuscate. It's your houserule that requires them to possess Auspex in order to use them.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by tsusasi View Post

                Kindred without Auspex already do have methods of dealing with Obfuscate. It's your houserule that requires them to possess Auspex in order to use them.
                ??? I just said the opposite actually

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                • #23
                  hunters in first edition had a tactic that could find an obfuscated vampire.

                  Forgot the name


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hogsy View Post
                    Are there any ways to counter Obfuscate? WoD is the kind of game that's all about surprising your opponents, and the discipline that turns you invisible feels like it should have some weakness. When I read Obfuscate at first, I thought that Animalism counters it because it doesn't mentions animals in a lot of its descriptions (except 3 dots iirc) but my ST doesn't agree with me. Any other ideas?

                    Considering that Obfuscate goes beyond mere invisibility and actually compels you on a subconscious level to ignore the user's presence, it seems like Auspex or some other kind of magical perception are the only ways to effectively counter it.

                    Using Animalism to sweep the room wouldn't work, because the power's description mentions how people instinctively move out of the vampire's way, if they get too close to them. Meaning that the would be spy master would have to be paying very close attention to their servants, in order to pick up subtle changes in their movements when scoping out the area.

                    There's a reason why the clans who have access to it are so revered for their espionage capabilities. :-)
                    Last edited by Nyrufa; 04-26-2019, 07:33 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Except opposing Disciplines trigger Clash of Wills. Obfuscate obscures the user while Animalism seeks him out, these are diametrically opposed powers.

                      As the Animalism user, YOU still wouldn't be able to see the Obfuscate user but it will be pretty apparent when your animals start attacking him and that would give you a roll to see through it or possibly cause him to break obf depending on the power.

                      Obfuscate still has the advantage of being the aggressor while Animalism requires one to actively sweep every single room you ever enter, which is a massive PITA and takes time which will likely turn up nothing 99.99% of the time. It would be like hardcore OCD that you have to do this little ritual every time you enter a room and that's assuming you're not out and about somewhere trying to NOT look like an insane hermit or Masquerade breacher.

                      The ability of other Disciplines to counter Obfuscate is actually a good one thematically because a Neonate who relies entirely on the power will probably get burned sooner than later while the shrewd Ancialla, who once survived being burned in this way, will employ his mundane stealthiness to synergize with his power of the Blood
                      Last edited by Rathamus; 04-26-2019, 09:30 PM.

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                      • #26
                        I wouldn't let Animalism do a Clash of Wills against Obfuscate. The powers aren't Clashing. You are giving the animals an order, and they are performing it to the best of their ability. The power isn't being blocked; it succeeds just fine. The problem is that, in all likelihood, the best of their ability isn't good enough. Animalism can't fix that.

                        If you're doing Summon the Hunt, putting your Vitae on the target is a requirement, not an effect of the power. If you can't see them to put blood on them, then you can't use it. Still not a Clash. If you do manage to get the blood on the target, I would then require a Clash to see if it worked. But at that point, you could Lash Out and just break it. It certainly doesn't work for sweeping an area.

                        If you wanted to "sweep an area," you'd have to call up a swarm and use the gaps in the swarm as the incidental evidence that Obfuscate allows for. And that wouldn't require a Clash. It's the same as throwing flour in the area and seeing where it doesn't hit the ground.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


                          Considering that Obfuscate goes beyond mere invisibility and actually compels you on a subconscious level to ignore the user's presence, it seems like Auspex or some other kind of magical perception are the only ways to effectively counter it.

                          Using Animalism to sweep the room wouldn't work, because the power's description mentions how people instinctively move out of the vampire's way, if they get too close to them. Meaning that the would be spy master would have to be paying very close attention to their servants, in order to pick up subtle changes in their movements when scoping out the area.

                          There's a reason why the clans who have access to it are so revered for their espionage capabilities. :-)
                          Actually Animalism is very effective at flushing out obfuscated characters. It doesn't take any great Investigative skill or Perception skill to see the big fat gaping hole on the floor where the rat carpet should be or spot the human shaped outline in the cloud of locusts, moths, or flies.

                          Or for shits and giggles, send in a bat to sweep the room. The bat will abruptly start to fly in another direction because their sonar capability tells them someone's there which functions by observing indirect clues or they arbitrarily avoid the obfuscated person or they'll fly straight into the obfuscated person and go splat.

                          Nor does Obfuscate provide any kind of mystical protection against the effects of Feral Infection or Lord of the Land if either of them are used to purge an area of undesirables.

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                          • #28
                            Feral Infection or Lord of the Land could totally work since those apply to an area. But I'd say "to see the big fat gaping hole on the floor where the rat carpet should be or spot the human shaped outline in the cloud of locusts, moths, or flies" fails for the same reason that a can of spray paint doesn't counter Obfuscate. You ignore their presence, which includes ignoring the lack of spray paint on the wall behind them—or the paint covering their clothing, for that matter. Similarly you don't see the empty space in a crowded room where people are mysteriously not walking.

                            Since the "you don't notice me" aura isn't perfect, it slips up sometimes. That's why you can make a Wits+Comp or Wits+Inv roll to pick up on those side effects. But I would never allow a bucket of water to perfectly and completely counter a level-three discipline.
                            Last edited by Draconis; 04-27-2019, 12:34 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                              Nor does Obfuscate provide any kind of mystical protection against the effects of Feral Infection or Lord of the Land if either of them are used to purge an area of undesirables.
                              Lord of the Land isn't going to do squat aside from tip you off that there's a vampire in the area after you've spent a big chunk of Vitae ringing the territory only to have it fail — "there are no other vampires in the area" is a prerequisite for its use.


                              Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                              Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                                Lord of the Land isn't going to do squat aside from tip you off that there's a vampire in the area after you've spent a big chunk of Vitae ringing the territory only to have it fail — "there are no other vampires in the area" is a prerequisite for its use.
                                Absolutely true, but I think the idea is "if you're in the territory you've already applied Animalism 5 to, you can sense people entering and leaving—which is justification for a Clash".

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