Multiple Bloodline Questions...

[Shenron]

Here it goes...

1. The new official Khaibit are really awesome. What would need to be translated to me them LARP playable?

2. What would need to be adjusted to make the Ahkud LARP playable?

2. I have searched the thread regarding all of the homebrew stuff and I could find nothing regarding the Baali. There was a Belials Brood link but the document has been deleted. Has anyone done a write up on the Baali? Or a version of the Brood?

[Draconis]

So first of all, what LARP rules are you using? The official Mind's Eye Theatre books were, unfortunately, never adapted to second edition.

If you're using those books without any update:

• Make the Khaibit a bloodline with Auspex, Celerity, Obtenebration, Vigor
  • Use the homebrew-fixed Obtenebration rules for 1e, which aren't as elegant as in 2e but are balanced against 1e mechanics and usable in LARP
• I'm assuming the Akhud aren't VII if you're letting player characters take them? If they are VII be prepared for a lot of player-versus-player chaos
  • Make the Akhud a clan with Celerity, Obfuscate, Resilience; favored attrs Strength and Wits
  • Praestantia is cool, but the 1e version isn't balanced for player use (especially in LARP), and the 2e version isn't balanced against 1e physical disciplines
  • Give them a new clan bane: I suggest being repelled by holy symbols
• Belial's Brood have a whole published book dedicated to them which works solidly for LARP antagonists (NPCs at least)
  • The Baali are from Masquerade, and I don't think I've seen them written up anywhere

[Shenron]

So first of all, what LARP rules are you using? The official Mind's Eye Theatre books were, unfortunately, never adapted to second edition.

If you're using those books without any update:

• Make the Khaibit a bloodline with Auspex, Celerity, Obtenebration, Vigor
  • Use the homebrew-fixed Obtenebration rules for 1e, which aren't as elegant as in 2e but are balanced against 1e mechanics and usable in LARP
• I'm assuming the Akhud aren't VII if you're letting player characters take them? If they are VII be prepared for a lot of player-versus-player chaos
  • Make the Akhud a clan with Celerity, Obfuscate, Resilience; favored attrs Strength and Wits
  • Praestantia is cool, but the 1e version isn't balanced for player use (especially in LARP), and the 2e version isn't balanced against 1e physical disciplines
  • Give them a new clan bane: I suggest being repelled by holy symbols
• Belial's Brood have a whole published book dedicated to them which works solidly for LARP antagonists (NPCs at least)
  • The Baali are from Masquerade, and I don't think I've seen them written up anywhere

Ya, I will be using the 1e MET books. They have a great resolution system for LARP but need to updated to 2e. It makes me sad that they have not been yet. I dont know even know who holds the rights to them (White Wolf/Onyx Path/By Night Studios?).

Where can I find the homebrew fix for Obtenebration?

The Akhud are not VII so I do not have to worry a lot about PvP. That sense about their disciplines. I really like that idea for their clan weakness.

I had the Belials brood book at some point. Really cool for antagonists.

Ya, I know Baali are V:tM. I have always thought they were great had a lot of RP possibility. I ignore the whole incarnate evil thing from Dark Ages and more devils advocates and modern Satanists/Lucerferians. Bummer that no one has done a right up on them - I mean I think what really needs to be done is their discipline and an altered background.

[Draconis]

I've done a sort of half-conversion of the 1e LARP materials for a game I help with, which adds the most important parts of 2e (actually useful Disciplines, simplified combat, flat experience system) while keeping the 1e LARP materials as a base (because the balance and resolution works pretty well and I don't have enough time to fully rebalance 2e for it); the most important thing I've found is the experience system, since 1e's system rewards min-maxing and punishes rounded characters, especially in LARP.

Here's fixed Obten.

One thing I've found useful, that 1e Requiem never really seemed to learn: you don't need new Disciplines for everything, usually. A bit of reflavoring can turn Protean into Vicissitude, or Nightmare into Dementation (plus a couple Devotions for the signature powers like applying Protean transformations to others). I'd make the Baali a bloodline that gets both Majesty and Nightmare, in particular.

Oh, PS: on behalf of all your Gangrel players, please change Protean. It's a mess in the LARP books. What I've done is ported over Predatory Aspects and Unnatural Aspects from 2e to replace Aspect of the Predator and Claws of the Wild: in essence, dot one uses the rules for Partial Transformation in the Devotions section, while dot three allows you to make larger changes such as agg-claws but also wings for gliding or haemotoxic fangs or whatever, following the template of Partial Transformation.

[Shenron]

I've done a sort of half-conversion of the 1e LARP materials for a game I help with, which adds the most important parts of 2e (actually useful Disciplines, simplified combat, flat experience system) while keeping the 1e LARP materials as a base (because the balance and resolution works pretty well and I don't have enough time to fully rebalance 2e for it); the most important thing I've found is the experience system, since 1e's system rewards min-maxing and punishes rounded characters, especially in LARP.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/addressing-obtenebration-or-how-not-to-design-a-discipline-v-tr.183609/"]Here's fixed Obten.[/URL]

One thing I've found useful, that 1e Requiem never really seemed to learn: you don't need new Disciplines for everything, usually. A bit of reflavoring can turn Protean into Vicissitude, or Nightmare into Dementation (plus a couple Devotions for the signature powers like applying Protean transformations to others). I'd make the Baali a bloodline that gets both Majesty and Nightmare, in particular.

Oh, PS: on behalf of all your Gangrel players, please change Protean. It's a mess in the LARP books. What I've done is ported over Predatory Aspects and Unnatural Aspects from 2e to replace Aspect of the Predator and Claws of the Wild: in essence, dot one uses the rules for Partial Transformation in the Devotions section, while dot three allows you to make larger changes such as agg-claws but also wings for gliding or haemotoxic fangs or whatever, following the template of Partial Transformation.

Do you have all of your conversion work written out? That would be mighty helpful.

I see your point about the disciplines and not needing one for everything.

As for the Baali goes, what Clan would they be from? Arguements could be made for the Deava, Ventrue, and Nos. Also, would it be worth trying to convert over their discipline? It is very thematic.

[Draconis]

All the rules are written up, though I'd need to get permission from the rest of the ST team to share them. Be aware that it alters the details of pretty much everything.

For Daimonion, most of what it does is really Nightmare or Majesty. Dot two makes people afraid, dot four makes people really afraid, dot five is a debuff power, those are all just Nightmare powers; dot three is throwing fireballs which never felt very vampiric to me, but there's a "balefire" in Mythologies which should be exactly what you want; dot one reveals someone's Vice which isn't covered by current powers but isn't that powerful either.

So I'd say start with the Daeva, give them Nightmare, then make Balefire and Sense the Sin be Theban Sorcery rituals.

[Shenron]

All the rules are written up, though I'd need to get permission from the rest of the ST team to share them. Be aware that it alters the details of pretty much everything.

For Daimonion, most of what it does is really Nightmare or Majesty. Dot two makes people afraid, dot four makes people really afraid, dot five is a debuff power, those are all just Nightmare powers; dot three is throwing fireballs which never felt very vampiric to me, but there's a "balefire" in Mythologies which should be exactly what you want; dot one reveals someone's Vice which isn't covered by current powers but isn't that powerful either.

So I'd say start with the Daeva, give them Nightmare, then make Balefire and Sense the Sin be Theban Sorcery rituals.

Ya, let me know. What do you mean pretty much everything? If they say no, maybe at least th discipline section? That's where 1e needs the most help.

How does Balefire work in Mythologies?

Would it be rituals for Balefire/sense the sin be a sorcery ritual or devotions?

[Shenron]

If you can not share, what would be some of the must changes that I could make?

[Draconis]

The experience system is the big one. Beats and conditions are hard to track, but the flat xp costs if nothing else help a lot.

Then purge the nonsense mechanics like Predator's Taint, add in some things like actually useful Blood Sympathy if you want, and you're basically good.

[Shenron]

The experience system is the big one. Beats and conditions are hard to track, but the flat xp costs if nothing else help a lot.

Then purge the nonsense mechanics like Predator's Taint, add in some things like actually useful Blood Sympathy if you want, and you're basically good.

And what about disciplines?

Do you have examples of the flat XP cost?

[Draconis]

I just use the one from the 2e corebook (human or vampire) and it works fine.

[Shenron]

I just use the one from the 2e corebook (human or vampire) and it works fine.

Awesome.

I know you said something about Gangrel to

[EndlessKng]

One thing the Mind's Eye Society did last chronicle was to turn all of the "unique" bloodline disciplines into Devotions (usually just one per, but a little work could develop any others you really wanted), and then just replace them with another discipline in the write-ups, which sounds like some of what Draconis may have done in some other cases. These were done in 1e but probably could be converted.

I know that this chronicle the MES, as well as Shadowplay International, are using the straight rules from the book in a LARP setting thanks to the Onyx Dice App. This isn't necessarily a perfect solution, though. The real problem with doing any LARP with 2E rules is that 2E wasn't remotely built with LARP in mind. The 1e NWoD MET books made a bit of effort, but as with oWoD MET, the effort seemed to be to convert the mechanics without taking into consideration the differences between LARP and Tabletop play. This is one reason I like the BNS versions of VtM and WtA; they're by no means perfect, but they also were designed with LARP logistics in mind (may have mentioned this in other threads). That's why teleport powers are rare and either time-consuming or fairly short range.

However, Chronicles 2E is especially tricky in a LARP; I run games in it with both a high power level and a moderate power level and it can be very difficult to create actual challenges for players. 2E had some specific design elements in mind - focus more on the things that make the supernatural type cool rather than on all the dark and painful aspects, more versatile powers focused on story and finding things out, and a general tilting of things in the players' favor. In a small, friendly group, this is easier to handle; in a larger group with PCs buffing each other and where occasionally you get a few players who know all the rules exploits, the STs can quickly get overwhelmed. It also showed me that 2E PCs really do not need a lot of starting Experience; if you give any, cap it at 5 - that's enough to buy at least one thing on the sheet, but not more than a couple of things.

Also, mages can and will break your game faster than anything. This sounds like saying "water is wet" but it is especially true if you allow downtime casting of any sort, where PCs can stack all their yantra and ritual time preps up to get high-factor pools without worrying about penalties. For instance, I have an Ithaeur who usually had a +40 to all attacks with a weapon from Monkey's Paw (20 potency, with the extra reach for a boon); it would have been higher save for addenda that kept you from putting buffs from multiple spells onto a single roll. If you're focusing on Vampire, this shouldn't be an issue, but FYI.