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  • Guns in play

    Hello, a little new to the vampire game (often play HTV). Playing as a vampire is different in mood, but I play as a hunter would: cautiously with traps and planning ambushes..etc. most of my other vamp comrades don't use guns, but I pretty much exclusively do. "Guns are for weaker vamps" I was told by my NPC mentor. True or preference?



  • #2
    Well, vampires culturally tend to be a bit archaic. However if you're fighting not-vampires guns are an OK choice. Fighting vampires usually means you'll want something easier to buff given how tough vampires are against mundane weapons.

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    • #3
      The simple answer is that guns scale poorly.

      Strength based melee combat is enhanced by the Vigor discipline. Protean 4 gives claws (Brawl) that deal lethal damage to Vampires. Kindred Dueling style 3 allows slashing weapons (Weaponry) to deal lethal damage to Vampires. Bite attacks (Brawl) always do lethal damage to Vampires.

      Guns do not have any way of dealing lethal to Vampires outside of exotic (magical or heavily restricted) ammunition.


      Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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      • #4
        There are ways to make using guns quite powerful as a vampire. Ideally you'll want the following. Praestatentia the ahkud discipline that increasea your Dexterity. Quicken Sight devotion is a must. Youll want a scoped weapon augmented to +5 using tech savvy from the invictus. Next up is the marksmanship style to increase your aim bonus even higher.

        These main tools can make spending a single vitae to aim incredibly potent. Altough it wont mean you can do lethal it does mean you can remain at range and with some planning and liberal use of celerity take someone down without too much effort

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        • #5
          I think the best supplement for taking Kindred on with guns is the fact that it requires far less preparation. Your older vampire might have five dots in vigor, but there's a fair shot if you're relatively new to the scene, you won't have that high of vigor. So, you buy a gun and you get good with it. Quicken Sight and Marksmanship Fighting style allows for some big dice bonuses, then you have physical intensity, and if you can get your hands on Praestantia then even better.

          Now, some more benefits of fighting at range is potentially getting to set the playing field. If your enemy needs to get close to destroy you, making getting close an incredible hassle. If you have prep time, lay the field with mines and draw them out. Another benefit of guns is that if you have celerity, you'll have a few turns where you can move out of the way so they miss, but you still hit them. Mekhet can make for some very scary gunslingers, by the way.

          After that, money really goes a long way to making guns really nice. Get yourself an anti-tank rifle and shove it in the trunk, or buy some incendiary shells for your shotgun and carry your sawed off in your coat.

          So all in all, guns require some thinking put in, but they provide some great strategies to implement.

          Another option is: use both. If the attacking kindred gets close, make sure to have few dots in brawl (and/or the double jointed merit) to be able to escape the grapple. If you're a kindred that likes to fight up close and personal, but for whatever reason you can't (let's say you decided it would be fun to mess with a gang banger, his buddies found out, and now you're sitting behind a wall because that's a lot of bullets coming your way) then having the option to return fire while thinking up a new plan is great. Kindred don't survive if they're one trick ponies, so having multiple options will increase their livelihood (so to speak) extensively.

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          • #6
            The biggest problem with guns is that gunfire draws attention. Even pulling a gun out can draw attention. Vampires do not want attention. Guns do have advantages, but I've always found the simple downside of "cops might show up soon after firing one" to be far too big a risk to justify, especially as a predator that relies on secrecy and Masquerade.

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            • #7
              Quicken Sight is a good choise to use guns.
              But also cosider you are shooting at distance, so probably you want go with short/medium burst, then you want maybe to boost your dext with vitae. If you manage to keep the right distance it can be quite hard to handle it also for a Vampire. Surely celerity and resilence are a huge obstacle.
              Last edited by Marcus; 05-20-2019, 05:38 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Maina View Post
                The biggest problem with guns is that gunfire draws attention. Even pulling a gun out can draw attention. Vampires do not want attention. Guns do have advantages, but I've always found the simple downside of "cops might show up soon after firing one" to be far too big a risk to justify, especially as a predator that relies on secrecy and Masquerade.

                Silencers?

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                • #9
                  Suppressors aren't exactly silent.

                  Though, that said, drawing a sword in public is pretty attention grabbing too. Hell walking around with a sword draws a lot of attention unless that's a nearby geeky convention. You also don't really want a skilled forensic technician finding the mess of Protean based claws and figuring out what must of caused them.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    Suppressors aren't exactly silent.

                    Though, that said, drawing a sword in public is pretty attention grabbing too. Hell walking around with a sword draws a lot of attention unless that's a nearby geeky convention.
                    That's what Obfuscate and Majesty are for!

                    You also don't really want a skilled forensic technician finding the mess of Protean based claws and figuring out what must of caused them.
                    Claws from Protean 1 are just regular animal claws, a forensics exam shouldn't uncover anything unnatural.

                    And if it's something you need P4 claws against, you probably don't want mortals examining the body anyway, unnatural claw wounds or no. I forgot Protean manifestations can't be changed on the fly. Don't leave a corpse? Punch the human to death instead of rip them to shreds?
                    Last edited by proindrakenzol; 05-20-2019, 03:50 PM.


                    Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                    • #11
                      Swords at least have concealable options like sword-canes. And most things you'd need Protean claws against would be a problem if found at all, no matter the state of the body. Even the wimpiest vampire can take out a mundane human bare-handed, so the concern should be more "what is subtle" than "what does the most damage." If "what does the most damage" is the primary concern, Masquerade probably already went out the window. And you should probably be trying to fight smarter, not harder, but that's another discussion altogether.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by proindrakenzol View Post

                        That's what Obfuscate and Majesty are for!



                        Claws from Protean 1 are just regular animal claws, a forensics exam shouldn't uncover anything unnatural.

                        And if it's something you need P4 claws against, you probably don't want mortals examining the body anyway, unnatural claw wounds or no. I forgot Protean manifestations can't be changed on the fly. Don't leave a corpse? Punch the human to death instead of rip them to shreds?
                        I disagree when you say Prot 2 claws are regular animals claws. Forensics exam would uncover that things such as distance between claws are fitting more with an human hand. Then probably the coroner wouldn't yell: Monster. But for sure he would inquiry someone and someone who know could understand.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Marcus View Post
                          I disagree when you say Prot 2 claws are regular animals claws. Forensics exam would uncover that things such as distance between claws are fitting more with an human hand. Then probably the coroner wouldn't yell: Monster. But for sure he would inquiry someone and someone who know could understand.
                          Distance between claws is just one thing. Angles of the scratches would indicate a biped of roughly human size. Depth of the wounds would vary but most often indicate something stronger than most humans (between Frenzy bonuses, Physical Intensity, and Vigor vampires are unparalleled when it comes to Strength rolls).
                          Most important would be the placements of the claw marks. Any vampire would aim different from a normal predator. Partly due to the bipedal build but also because anyone with Brawl dots (which you'd have if you'd ever choose the claws) would just aim differently.
                          Another clue to something unnatural going on is that there's either no bite marks at all (which is generally not predatory behaviour) or there's a set of decidedly human shaped bite marks on the body.


                          Bloodline: The Stygians
                          Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
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                          • #14
                            This is all assuming that your game's city has a crime lab with top-of-the-line training and materials. It also assumes anyone cares enough to make these notes when this is CofD, not the real world, and just about everyone has had some minor brush with the supernatural that they've willfully forgotten (as evidenced by the Integrity questions in chargen).

                            Though, again, a Gangrel hardly needs Protean to bring down anything human. And anything not probably shouldn't end up in the hands of the morgue anyway.

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                            • #15
                              Yeah, unfortunately even in real life there just aren't enough resources to investigate every death properly. Especially if it's someone "unimportant" (homeless John Doe found facedown in the canal).

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