What do you wish you knew about making Disciplines?

[DubiousRuffian]

Every roll that affect someone else negatively is contested by default.

Oh crap you're right. Don't know why I didn't really notice that...

But I guess what I had in mind is something like Majesty 2 vs Nightmare 3. Nightmare 3 is a Contested roll -- totally binary -- either you become delusional or not.

Majesty 2 on the other hand.... Succeed at a Contested Roll to impose the Charmed Condition. The Charmed Condition gives a bonus to Manipulate rolls and a penalty to detecting lies equal to dots in Majesty. It broadens the effects of Awe, but you don't have to roll to Awe someone. You just Awe them and then roll directly for the effects. The fact that you have to roll to impose the Charmed Condition before rolling for Manipulate ever so slightly lowers the overall probability of success. And it's just kind of a weird asymmetry.

I'm pretty sure it's because the individual powers don't follow a progressive structure like a Discipline would. Compare to Cachexy in DEC where each dot thematically or practically build off of previous dots.

Yikes, I got the Khaibit mixed up with the Kerberos, and for some reason was thinking that Obtenebration was implemented as Merits with Discipline prerequisites. Glancing over the original release, I don't believe that is the case. And I think you're probably right about the explanation.


That said, the Devotions are based on Vigor, Celerety, and Obfuscate 2. That's a little weird right? the Obfuscate 2 Devotion lets you become shadow... is that just just because it's literally called "Touch of Shadow"? I'm not sure how Obfuscate 2 thematically relates to becoming a shadow. Seems more like a Cloak of Shadow to me :P. Also, one of the Vigor 2 Devotions lets you expel shadow from your veins. Why is that Vigor?

Contrast the Celerity Devotion to King Katamba's Devotion based on Obfuscate 1 that lets him enter the underworld. Granted they were written by two different people, under (I think? Thousand Years of Night was Danielle's right?) a different developer, but that's a bit of a weird inconsistancy.

[Mateus]

Rose, looks like you opened the flood gates!

[Rose Bailey]

Thanks for all of the questions! I'm writing up answers.

Rose, looks like you opened the flood gates!

I'm enjoying it! Dipping back in via Storytellers Vault is much more fun than I was expecting.

[DubiousRuffian]

Ooh, this is a long shot - but guidelines for Threnodies. How central is the self-harming aspect? When should an effect be a Threnody rather than a Devotion? Any other info on them is always appreciated, cause I love the aesthetic of musical vampire hedge magic. I just want a character to excuse herself from a dinner to go to the bathroom, try to keep her singing under the sound of the faucet while putting cigarettes out on herself, and suddenly the host's teeth all fall out.

Rose, looks like you opened the flood gates!

Hey man, any chance for more of that sweet sweet content.

[ArcaneArts]

More on Disciplines as Story Hooks.

[Rose Bailey]

More on Disciplines as Story Hooks.

One thing I'm talking about, especially in the Auspex and Protean dev histories, is how Disciplines have a story arc.

[Korogra]

Rose, you’re a huge goofball and do silly things some times narratively, but you’ve got a good head for Vampire shenanigans xD

Here is my question: how does Strix Vitae power Disciplines when it lacks a good number of the properties of Kindred Vitae, which does fuel Disciplines? The book makes it seem that the shadow-stuff Of The Owls is less mystically potent than the energies of their fleshbound progeny, so I’m curious as to what your take on it is.

[Tessie]

Isn't the only difference that Strix Vitae isn't bound in blood and thus not useful for Disciplines that requires the spilling of blood?

[Tomorrow's Nobody]

Isn't the only difference that Strix Vitae isn't bound in blood and thus not useful for Disciplines that requires the spilling of blood?

And it can't cause blood bonds when in shadow form nor can they create or maintain ghouls in shadow form, but that probably goes without saying (still, the book does mention it).

[Korogra]

And it can't cause blood bonds when in shadow form nor can they create or maintain ghouls in shadow form, but that probably goes without saying (still, the book does mention it).

And it also cannot stop a host or beneficiary from aging without the Preservation Dread Power.

That’s why I am curious, it just seems to have Curious (though not incomprehensible) limitations.

But Rose;

She must know the darkest answer to this mystery .

[Maseiken]

Does Clan balance come into consideration when designing the Disciplines themselves? Likewise Bloodlines.

I don't necessarily mean "Oh no, Daeva are too strong", but more like if you wanted to give a Mekhet Bloodline an Obten remake, would you consider making one of the powers a Stealth Enhancer (Since that's a pretty Obten thing to have) or would you allow that Mekhet already have Obfuscate, and many who would thematically use Obten would be using both?

Especially with Blood Sorceries, is there a concern of "Short Changing" particular clans that can already achieve the result of the intended power, or will not be able to exploit the power to the same extent?
(Like, say, CoC Gangrel with transformation Rituals, or Mekhet taking Ascension coils)

[Baaldam]

This one might be a little weird, but that seems to be maybe what you want, so:

Why are Disciplines structured the way they are? Why do you have to know how to discern secrets before you can use telepathy or astral projection? Why are there discreet abilities instead of Disciplines being like smaller-scale Arcana or Blood Sorcery Themes? It would be useful to have answers from both from a design perspective as well as (especially, for my particular interests) an IC/fluff/thematic perspective.

I've always found knowing why things work a certain way helps a lot, so this would be useful to know.

I'm not Rose, but based on what i have seen of the books - it doesn't have to.

It's more of a road better known matter, the disciplines are learned as much as inherited, but the specific powers shown in the book are not the only ones possible. Off the cuff i can cite how Shadows of Mexico gives us a number of alternate discipline powers for kindred of a precolumbian extraction or those embraced &/or taught by them. There might be other "cultural sphere examples" spread in the other 1e and 2e books i do not know or remember. anyway, tthought it might be relevant to your interests.

[Rathamus]

Devotions are also able to be learned instead of the normal power for that level so even if you call it a devotion, that's well within the rules to substitue a power.

[Draconis]

Devotions are also able to be learned instead of the normal power for that level so even if you call it a devotion, that's well within the rules to substitue a power.

Wait, what?

[Rose Bailey]

And here it is!

BLOODY DOTS: The Writer's Guide to Disciplines.