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What do you wish you knew about making Disciplines?

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  • Draconis
    replied
    Originally posted by zee PaTrick View Post
    And yet it is Requiem. For instance on page 143 of VTR2E in the Devotions section you find Conditioning, an alternate four dot Dominate Power. It is not a combination power Devotion but an alternate Discipline power which is in fact a listed devotion. On page 147 of VTR2E in the Devotions section you find Summoning an alternate four dot Dominate or Majesty Power. This also is not a combination of two disciplines to create a devotion but is an alternate Discipline power accessible from two different disciplines which is in fact a listed devotion.
    Yeah, as others have said, these aren't actually alternate powers: you have to have The Lying Mind (Dominate 4) before you can buy Conditioning, and Conditioning only costs 2xp rather than 3 (or 4). Nothing in 2e can alter the consistent one-to-five progression of a Discipline.

    Now, in 1e, there are some alternate powers: The Feather's Flight, Barring the Bone Gate, Playback, The Jungle's Sting, Claws of the Deep, and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting. You purchase those as part of the normal discipline progression, in place of the "standard" power, and if you buy The Feather's Flight for Auspex 3 you can never go back and buy Spirit's Touch.

    Now, it would be interesting to actually have more choices at each level, the way Masquerade 5e does it (rather than a core path with branches off). Might toy around with that…

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  • Rose Bailey
    replied
    I wouldn't go to extremes with branching, but it's a legit use of Devotions. If one wanted to do Exalted-style Charm trees, I think it'd be necessary to simplify each individual power.

    I've been thinking that Mutant City Blues' Quade Diagram would be an interesting way to model supernatural creatures.

    Leave a comment:


  • DubiousRuffian
    replied
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post

    I guess that you cannot learn them INSTEAD of the normal power. Nothing is stating that. It's just that at that level of the discipline you can also buy a devotion. But the basic power it's still to be unlocked before.
    If you literally just lower the prerequisite by one dot, you get the effect. You can make branching trees by having a second devotion with the first devotion as a prerequisite.

    Might be more of an individual ST/homebrewer call, but I feel like it's not a huge change to make. Also, I think that was suggested in the Bloody Dots doc, but don't hold me to it. I was skimming.
    Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 06-24-2019, 10:58 AM.

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  • Marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by zee PaTrick View Post

    And yet it is Requiem. For instance on page 143 of VTR2E in the Devotions section you find Conditioning, an alternate four dot Dominate Power. It is not a combination power Devotion but an alternate Discipline power which is in fact a listed devotion. On page 147 of VTR2E in the Devotions section you find Summoning an alternate four dot Dominate or Majesty Power. This also is not a combination of two disciplines to create a devotion but is an alternate Discipline power accessible from two different disciplines which is in fact a listed devotion.
    I guess that you cannot learn them INSTEAD of the normal power. Nothing is stating that. It's just that at that level of the discipline you can also buy a devotion. But the basic power it's still to be unlocked before.

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  • zee PaTrick
    replied
    Originally posted by Blakemikizuki View Post

    That sounds like the new masquerade edition. And not requiem.
    And yet it is Requiem. For instance on page 143 of VTR2E in the Devotions section you find Conditioning, an alternate four dot Dominate Power. It is not a combination power Devotion but an alternate Discipline power which is in fact a listed devotion. On page 147 of VTR2E in the Devotions section you find Summoning an alternate four dot Dominate or Majesty Power. This also is not a combination of two disciplines to create a devotion but is an alternate Discipline power accessible from two different disciplines which is in fact a listed devotion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus
    replied
    Consider it wish listed. Please keep releasing stuff like this it is really enjoyable.
    If you were to release some for Chronicles that would be cool too!

    Leave a comment:


  • Blakemikizuki
    replied
    Originally posted by Rathamus View Post
    Devotions are also able to be learned instead of the normal power for that level so even if you call it a devotion, that's well within the rules to substitue a power.
    That sounds like the new masquerade edition. And not requiem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rose Bailey
    replied
    And here it is!

    BLOODY DOTS: The Writer's Guide to Disciplines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Draconis
    replied
    Originally posted by Rathamus View Post
    Devotions are also able to be learned instead of the normal power for that level so even if you call it a devotion, that's well within the rules to substitue a power.
    Wait, what?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rathamus
    replied
    Devotions are also able to be learned instead of the normal power for that level so even if you call it a devotion, that's well within the rules to substitue a power.

    Leave a comment:


  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Maina View Post
    This one might be a little weird, but that seems to be maybe what you want, so:

    Why are Disciplines structured the way they are? Why do you have to know how to discern secrets before you can use telepathy or astral projection? Why are there discreet abilities instead of Disciplines being like smaller-scale Arcana or Blood Sorcery Themes? It would be useful to have answers from both from a design perspective as well as (especially, for my particular interests) an IC/fluff/thematic perspective.

    I've always found knowing why things work a certain way helps a lot, so this would be useful to know.

    I'm not Rose, but based on what i have seen of the books - it doesn't have to.

    It's more of a road better known matter, the disciplines are learned as much as inherited, but the specific powers shown in the book are not the only ones possible. Off the cuff i can cite how Shadows of Mexico gives us a number of alternate discipline powers for kindred of a precolumbian extraction or those embraced &/or taught by them. There might be other "cultural sphere examples" spread in the other 1e and 2e books i do not know or remember. anyway, tthought it might be relevant to your interests.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 06-15-2019, 02:54 PM.

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  • Maseiken
    replied
    Does Clan balance come into consideration when designing the Disciplines themselves? Likewise Bloodlines.

    I don't necessarily mean "Oh no, Daeva are too strong", but more like if you wanted to give a Mekhet Bloodline an Obten remake, would you consider making one of the powers a Stealth Enhancer (Since that's a pretty Obten thing to have) or would you allow that Mekhet already have Obfuscate, and many who would thematically use Obten would be using both?

    Especially with Blood Sorceries, is there a concern of "Short Changing" particular clans that can already achieve the result of the intended power, or will not be able to exploit the power to the same extent?
    (Like, say, CoC Gangrel with transformation Rituals, or Mekhet taking Ascension coils)

    Leave a comment:


  • Korogra
    replied
    Originally posted by Tomorrow's Nobody View Post

    And it can't cause blood bonds when in shadow form nor can they create or maintain ghouls in shadow form, but that probably goes without saying (still, the book does mention it).
    And it also cannot stop a host or beneficiary from aging without the Preservation Dread Power.

    That’s why I am curious, it just seems to have Curious (though not incomprehensible) limitations.

    But Rose;

    She must know the darkest answer to this mystery .
    Last edited by Korogra; 06-13-2019, 04:00 AM.

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  • Tomorrow's Nobody
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    Isn't the only difference that Strix Vitae isn't bound in blood and thus not useful for Disciplines that requires the spilling of blood?
    And it can't cause blood bonds when in shadow form nor can they create or maintain ghouls in shadow form, but that probably goes without saying (still, the book does mention it).

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  • Tessie
    replied
    Isn't the only difference that Strix Vitae isn't bound in blood and thus not useful for Disciplines that requires the spilling of blood?

    Leave a comment:

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