Picking some brains.

[Gnomish American]

So I have a few unconnected questions for you all, one technical one narrative. Normally I would talk to my wife about this, but she's a player and so I can't go to her.

The Technical Question) Now this question I could take to her but I don't think she would be particularly helpful in: Have any of you used the Discipline Hacks (Battle Aura/Skill bump) from the Danse Macabre book in second edition. part of me feels that they don't exactly fit with the new disciplines that do so much (especially the toe-stepping Auras) but another part of me remembers how much fun the players thought it was when I used them in 1st Edition.

The Narrative Question or GOD I WISH I COULD TALK TO MY WIFE) Sooo I'm planning this story about a bunch of college kids crashing a sorority party and becoming vampires when the sorority is attacked because the Sorority is made up of Low-Key Monster Hunting adrenaline junkies. Now, I know I want the mastermind behind the mass embrace to be doing it to bolster the footing of the Carthian Movement in the city without getting his hands dirty, assuming that the newly embraced would be drawn to the politics of Movement, what I can't figure out is why anyone would agree to take part in the mass embrace.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Ray

[Neos01]

For the second one, the vampires could poison the sorority drinks, then while the kids are in the agony of death, arrive like the cavalry to offer salvation to the kids (by embrace).
After that they ll offer help to catch the culprit (random carthian movement enemy, offering false clues about his involvement)

[Draconis]

They've enlisted the help of a Dragon (or the Dragons and Carthians have a strong alliance going on), who wants to try out a mass-embrace experiment while letting the Carthians deal with the consequences (after all, there won't be a dozen new Dragons showing up…). Plus, perhaps their version of the Scale gives them a bit of long-term control over the childer, so the Carthians can't use the childer against them.

[Rose Bailey]

Monster hunters, huh? How's that working out for you?

Thought so. Gets worse, too. Still nursing that hip?

We can fix that. You've chased down enough of us to know how resilient we are.

I ain't gonna glamorize it. I'm recruiting for a cause. But you've got health risks. I've got a fix.

Take my hand, and let's hunt the real bad guys.

[Mateus]

Monster hunters, huh? How's that working out for you?

Thought so. Gets worse, too. Still nursing that hip?

We can fix that. You've chased down enough of us to know how resilient we are.

I ain't gonna glamorize it. I'm recruiting for a cause. But you've got health risks. I've got a fix.

Take my hand, and let's hunt the real bad guys.

This. I would play this game to its eventual bloody end.

Edit: I am jealous of you Rose. And of Matthew Dawkins(Gentleman Gamer)

[Gnomish American]

Okay, I just reread my post and I see where my disconnect is. My question is why would a vampire give up some of their humanity to take part in it.

Thank you everyone for the answers. There are some great ideas I am definitely keeping.

[DubiousRuffian]

I don't think that humanity is so much of an in-game concept. Some people are more or less alienated from human society, but people aren't talking in terms of "After that car hit me I almost lost a dot of humanity, but then, thank God, I remembered I my attached touchstone!"

I think the experience is something more like, each time you decide to embrace, the fact that you aren't alive anymore is further driven home.

One way to go: You can finally drain a person, just fuckin get everything out of them and finally be full, and they don't even die. No guilt, no consequences. Death means nothing to you. Think of the power trip.

Alternately: the ends justify the means. They have to. You decided to killa person and cut them off from everyone they know and love. Force them or trick them into all the fucked up backbiting in the Society. You didn't decide someone is expendable for the cause - you straight up expended them. For the cause.

Or maybe all that talk about getting cut off from your old life is bullshit. Stop whining, it's not that bad. I don't know what you're talking about. I never miss my family. No one does. You are the only person I know who thinks this is a big deal. Just get over it. You should be thanking be for saving you from death. You always were ungrateful. You know, that's your problem. You're always complaining. Do you have any idea how hurtful it is? I stuck my neck out for you, and all you ever do is blame me. What is wrong with you? I give and give and you just keep taking. Firebombing the Invictus hq is literally the least you could to pay me back, and you won't even do that.

[Rose Bailey]

Humanity is mechanical shorthand for hundreds, if not thousands or millions, of Kindred psychological factors. Much like Touchstones or other Anchors, it has no supernatural existence on its own, and the degree to which is affects magic things is those magic things responding to the vampire's own state of mind.

Vampires generally don't know that they become less "human" by Embracing. What they do notice is that the people they've known who've done it seem to have put an emotional investment in that's partly backfired.

[Gnomish American]

Right, and I'm sure they've told stories or seen people become more detached over time. The Embrace is one of the Traditions, so there's definitely at least a superstition about detachment.

[Shawarbaaz]

The way I see the Embrace is that it's an act so monstrous, so selfish, so inhumane that it's an instant Humanity detachment that doesn't even need a roll. Because it inevitably create another vampire in the world, and that vampire is going to commit the sins you made, or even worse, and continue the vicious cycle.

I also remember a character in one of the novels describing the Embrace as "Giving birth, killing your parents, and divorcing your wife all rolled in one." So that trauma plays a role too.

[Malus]

Pfft. Nah. The embrace detaches you because it displays your inhumanity beyond a shadow of a doubt by bringing someone who should be dead back.

[Gnomish American]

I actually think you're both right. And that's why I was wondering why people would agree to do it over someone else's politics. I finally settled on a mixture of blackmail and zeal.

Tina and Zacharia do it because they believe in the cause of bringing down the current order, and because tina wants to damn someone the way she was damned. Neither knowing that they're working with a man who doesn't share their ideals.

McCoy does it because Tina tells him to and Zacharia scares him and because he worships the beast.

Marcus did it for science.

Gabe and Alice do it because after the monstrous acts they saw the other six perform (your math's not wrong the boss never actually embraces in this scenario) they decide to save two lives the only way they know how.

I'm still cleaning it up, but that's the gist.

[Draconis]

The way I see the Embrace is that it's an act so monstrous, so selfish, so inhumane that it's an instant Humanity detachment that doesn't even need a roll. Because it inevitably create another vampire in the world, and that vampire is going to commit the sins you made, or even worse, and continue the vicious cycle.

I also remember a character in one of the novels describing the Embrace as "Giving birth, killing your parents, and divorcing your wife all rolled in one." So that trauma plays a role too.

Which makes some sense—but then why is uplifting a Revenant the same (and in fact worse than eating that Revenant's soul), since the Revenant already exists and you're just giving them a means to control their hunger? That's the bit I've never understood.

[Gnomish American]

I assume its because the embrace uses up a bit of what's left of your soul.

[Tessie]

I assume its because the embrace uses up a bit of what's left of your soul.

The fact that it can be done accidentally without any Humanity loss at all (and merely a breaking point should the character come aware of it) heavily implies it's merely subjective/psychological, just like regular breaking points.