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Is there any recourse when Mesmerized?

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  • Is there any recourse when Mesmerized?

    So, another Vampire hits you with Mesmerized.

    Do you realize you've been Mesmerized? Can you do anything about it?

    Can someone hit you with Dominate 1 and then go "speak the complete truth", "answer all my questions", sit down and extract all the info they want, and then go 'forget this conversation"?

    Or can you realize that something is happening to you and flee (or attack) before the Ventrue can get another word out? Presuming "stand perfectly still" isn't the first command they give you?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Wade L View Post
    So, another Vampire hits you with Mesmerized.

    Do you realize you've been Mesmerized? Can you do anything about it?

    Can someone hit you with Dominate 1 and then go "speak the complete truth", "answer all my questions", sit down and extract all the info they want, and then go 'forget this conversation"?

    Or can you realize that something is happening to you and flee (or attack) before the Ventrue can get another word out? Presuming "stand perfectly still" isn't the first command they give you?
    You can prevent you being mesmerized only whether u have Celerity with an available interrupt (and note he could contest it if he has an interrupt as well).
    In all other case, even though you are first in iniziative, if he arrives to mesmerize you means you have no other shots but the contested roll.

    Speak the thruth, answer all my question, ecc. are all valid commands.

    Once mesmerized there's no much you can do about. You are not amymore on your own will, not even conscoius what you are doing as u won't remember after mesmerize ends.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Marcus View Post
      You can prevent you being mesmerized only whether u have Celerity with an available interrupt (and note he could contest it if he has an interrupt as well).
      Would you even know they were attempting to Dominate you to interrupt them? The write-up seems to make it appear that applying the Mesmerize condition isn't something super noticable ("Her control isn’t obvious").

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      • #4
        It pays to have a buddy. Like going to club alone, dealing with vampires can be a fun experience, having someone who can look out for you and nudge you out of an unnatural situation the way someone might remind you to not drink the drink you left at the bar unattended can go a long way.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Wade L View Post

          Would you even know they were attempting to Dominate you to interrupt them? The write-up seems to make it appear that applying the Mesmerize condition isn't something super noticable ("Her control isn’t obvious&quot.
          I'd say yes. It's not specifically written but Celerity allows to intereupt any Instant action and Mesmerize is an instant action.
          I rule it as you feel his eyes penetrating you, loosing yourself ecc.

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          • #6
            Can you reflexively lash out to break the mesmirism, similarly to breaking Majesty/Nightmare 1? In both of those cases, I think that the character doesn't have to be aware that they're being influenced because it's just the beast acting instictively.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post
              Can you reflexively lash out to break the mesmirism, similarly to breaking Majesty/Nightmare 1? In both of those cases, I think that the character doesn't have to be aware that they're being influenced because it's just the beast acting instictively.
              No, yoi can't. Lashing out is not reflexive, is an instant action which cost you a wp also. Also, it's not even true you can always lashing out against Majesty or Nightmare. They are subtle and you should be trained or somehow aware he's using them. You can always lash out at your own risk by the way.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DubiousRuffian View Post
                Can you reflexively lash out to break the mesmirism, similarly to breaking Majesty/Nightmare 1? In both of those cases, I think that the character doesn't have to be aware that they're being influenced because it's just the beast acting instictively.
                You can only lash out against Majesty and Nightmare 1 because it's a passive effect that does not otherwise afford a contested or resisted roll; Dominate provides for a contested roll that includes Blood Potency, that's your Beast trying to protect you.


                Mentats - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Mind/Forces) built around being a human computer; Thaumatech Engineers - a 2e Free Council Obrimos Legacy (Matter/Prime) focusing on the creation of Imbued items and the enhancement of Sleeper technology

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                • #9
                  Remember that it ends if you do a Breaking Point. Depending on the character, spilling secrets and betraying friends could count. For mortals, anyway.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                    I'd say yes. It's not specifically written but Celerity allows to intereupt any Instant action and Mesmerize is an instant action.
                    I rule it as you feel his eyes penetrating you, loosing yourself ecc.
                    This of course brings up the broader question of can you notice when someone is Mesmerizing you? Do you realize you are Mesmerized once it happens? Can you detected a failed attempt to Mesmerize?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Wade L View Post

                      This of course brings up the broader question of can you notice when someone is Mesmerizing you? Do you realize you are Mesmerized once it happens? Can you detected a failed attempt to Mesmerize?

                      A failed attempt to Mesmerize will result in atmospheric effects similar to other failed Discipline powers. Consider it reality sinking that Vitae's energy into something disturbing when the Beast doesn't get its desired result.

                      I don't have the VtR page number in front of me, but look under failed rolls.

                      Long and short: if you're paying attention and know the signs you'll understand that there was an attempt and it failed; context may tell you if you were the target.


                      --Khanwulf

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wade L View Post

                        This of course brings up the broader question of can you notice when someone is Mesmerizing you? Do you realize you are Mesmerized once it happens? Can you detected a failed attempt to Mesmerize?

                        As a generic rule, when a discipline fails something happens revealing the power was used: light flickering, flames becoming blue etc (from the book). Which means it should be somehow percepible also when happening.
                        Beyond that for awe and Auspex is specified it's subtle and not easy to recognize whether someone is using such powers, while Dominate is like your brain being raped.
                        And also, if you're also removing this opportunity, Dominate, Majesty and all the mind control powers are an easy win, making everything too much unbalanced. Yes there's the contested roll but it's higly in favor of Mesmerize...

                        I personally rule it as you feel something happen, you preceive your mind get lost, and in that very instant you only can rely on your supernatural speed to act avoiding the void. Which is not only thematic but also quite right.

                        On the countrary there is not really too much in favor of the other view, and it's just about how you want to interpret how much subtle mesmerize is.

                        But if I have to rely on the pure rules I'd rather go for: Celerity interrupt any instant action which is not explicity stated as not perceptible, like Auspex.
                        Last edited by Marcus; 01-14-2020, 01:09 PM.

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                        • #13
                          I think it was mentioned on the forums that, included in the Mesmerize roll, is the contest for whether the victim avoids eye contact. So I think it wouldn't be out of the question.

                          If you win the contested roll, it seems reasonable to interpret the roll as your savvy neonate realizing that *this asshole isn't eyebanging me, he's trying to mindfuck me*.

                          I'd allow it for a PC (or at least give them a clue that they can follow up on), but I'd probably make a roll for an NPC.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wade L View Post

                            This of course brings up the broader question of can you notice when someone is Mesmerizing you? Do you realize you are Mesmerized once it happens? Can you detected a failed attempt to Mesmerize?
                            You might notice a failed attempt. Whether or not you can tell someone is mesmerizing you is going to depend on their approach. If they just barge up to you and demand you to give them a specific book from the Ordo Dracul chapterhouse, you may get suspicious if you know Dominate exists and the person making the demand has the ability. If, however, they come up to you and make with the idle chitchat and say “could you please (bring the book here) so I can briefly check something” you’re highly unlikely to realize you were dominated.

                            No, you don’t realize you are Mesmerized when it’s in effect. In fact, you don’t remember specifically what you were doing while Mesmerized and carrying out instructions, unless told to remember specifics. If you’re repeatedly subjected to being Mesmerized or asked to carry out something that takes several hours to finish, you may start to notice your memory has chunks of “lost time” but that doesn’t automatically translate to “oh I was Dominated by X”. The Swooning condition causes the same hazy recall.

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                            • #15
                              Since “do my bidding” isn’t allowed I wouldn’t allow "speak the complete truth" or “answer all my questions" since it seems orders are meant to be one off commands until dot 2. I would allow a question to be considered a command if it was only 4 words long.
                              As for counters I would recommend a buddy system to inflict bashing damage on anyone under mesmerise.

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