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So Ezekiel of Sodom is Something Else.

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  • #16
    Oh I agree from what I have seen.

    That said, these Elders still have some narrative use, entertaining use!

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    • #17
      To be fair, methuselahs are meant to have a level of power that dwarfs other Kindred and if I remember their power isn't just age, but a clearer memory.

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      • #18
        I'm uncertain of how might i use methuselahs in Requiem games, even though i do like Zagreus as an overpowered NPC.

        The Sleep of Ages as a excuse for weird ancients that pretty much change their identities - and definitions of self - across the centuries and millenia, guess i've gotten a little too used to it to actually want millenia-old monsters with crystal clear memory in the table.
        Last edited by Baaldam; 07-16-2020, 11:09 PM.

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        • #19
          Don't complain about thread necromancy. Just report it. This is you acting as a mod. Consider yourself having a warning.

          FYI - Everyone. I'm deleting this entire conversation line.

          Respect.

          As for thread necromancy, it's only a major problem if people have nothing new to contribute. I should also point out that its stretches the definition of "necromancy" to have months qualify. Thread necromancy only applies to threads that are AT LEAST a year old.
          Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-17-2020, 08:11 PM.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
            I'm uncertain of how might i use methuselahs in Requiem games, even though i do like Zagreus as an overpowered NPC.

            The Sleep of Ages as a excuse for weird ancients that pretty much change their identities - and definitions of self - across the centuries and millenia, guess i've gotten a little too used to it to actually want millenia-old monsters with crystal clear memory in the table.
            Back to the topic, clear memory is for computers. I guess vampire still can remember certain things clearer than other while something else could got forgotten just as any not important fluff.
            I prefer far more this approach than having elder vampires with Alzheimer because fog of ages though
            I've never been a fan of this aspect of 1st ed.
            On the other side, after millennia a Vampire has so many lore reasons/excuses to become weird and "Alien". Low humanity already by raw let you, unconsciously, act as a weird, detached, alien monster after all.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Marcus View Post
              Back to the topic, clear memory is for computers. I guess vampire still can remember certain things clearer than other while something else could got forgotten just as any not important fluff.
              I prefer far more this approach than having elder vampires with Alzheimer because fog of ages though
              Always felt the "vampire Alzheimer" meme was a terribly unfair simile, but well, not like It ever got some much needed fleshing out to fly.

              Mythologies had some lovely ideas though but somewhat lacking in interactivity and mechanic bite, that inspired me to tinker with some the astral/dream realms systems from MtAw and that stuff (mixed with bits from Book of Dead) has served wonderfully to bring some welcome weirdness to my chronicles.

              Originally posted by Marcus View Post
              I've never been a fan of this aspect of 1st ed.
              On the other side, after millennia a Vampire has so many lore reasons/excuses to become weird and "Alien". Low humanity already by raw let you, unconsciously, act as a weird, detached, alien monster after all.
              For me It was not about loss per se (that was far from certain or reliable), but how the kindred's perception or perspective of the past, present or even self could be changed or twisted by spending weeks, months, years, decades or even centuries of dreams and nightmares during its death sleep.

              How It could transform a vampire in subtle or dramatic ways when one rises again, in the same or a different era/world.

              Or not at all - but one's world view is so uncanny and alien to the kindred now around it one's trusty memories of the supernatural past might as well be delirium & dementia (until It all comes back, that is). πŸ˜‰

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              • #22
                I was also a fan of the Fog from 1e, but apperently the "senile Elders" became such a negative meme that 2e had to let it go. I thought it was a great story material, but most of the fandom thought otherwise.


                Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

                "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                  I was also a fan of the Fog from 1e, but apperently the "senile Elders" became such a negative meme that 2e had to let it go. I thought it was a great story material, but most of the fandom thought otherwise.
                  Oh well, that's (un)life. Not like i'm going to abandon my somewhat outdated homebrew weirdness because of It. Damn, sometimes i make weird events as an ingame meta-excuse for any rules changes or updates. 🀣

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                  • #24
                    Honestly, I never understood why you needed Fog of Ages to have vampires forget the past. How much do you remember from a decade ago? Two decades, if you're old enough? Vampires (other than Methuselah) don't have any kind of supernatural advantage to their memory. Their minds are just as prone to forgetfulness or mistakes as anyone's. Even Methuselah are stated as having a clearer memory, not a perfect one.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Maina View Post
                      Honestly, I never understood why you needed Fog of Ages to have vampires forget the past. How much do you remember from a decade ago? Two decades, if you're old enough? Vampires (other than Methuselah) don't have any kind of supernatural advantage to their memory. Their minds are just as prone to forgetfulness or mistakes as anyone's. Even Methuselah are stated as having a clearer memory, not a perfect one.
                      It's not a matter of needing so much as a tool to explore the peculiarness of their condition, an aspect of changing in ways that don't quite map to bigger/better/more vicious/etc. It also drives home the unreliability of sources to a whole other level. It should also bear mention that VII or the Strix cyclically culling whole domains through the ages (among other things) where NOT setting elements back then.

                      Not saying that kindred do not accrue disadvantages/problems as they grow older. But NOR is the Sleep of Ages always described as deleterious, general railing against It notwithstanding.

                      Also, pretty nifty excuse for "enemy within" tales, where a neonate PC eventually finds out it is much, much more than it ever suspected, among other things. πŸ˜‰

                      Anyway, the authors themselves never gave It the kind of polish the concept needed to fully work and has been abandoned. I'm very much aware my liking/exploration of It is a niche thing and sort of an acquired taste.

                      (Maybe i could throw some of my old "Sleep of Ages/Realms of Second Death" ideas and mechanics in a thread of its own when i get my computer back. Just to see who bites and what comes out from discussing It with other players & STs)

                      Also, reposting here a little "blink and you miss it" possible crazy old ancient amidst the covenant books templates, of all things.


                      Originally posted by Ordo Dracul, pg. 217
                      Machiavelli Kogaion
                      It all moves in circles.
                      It began with the mountain. So much from the past is occluded,
                      but the mountain rises above the mists of memory and mystery.
                      Sometimes she thinks she remembers running with wolves, flying with the night-birds,
                      walking forever across ice in a time when the sun seemed to never rise and, once risen, seemed never to set.
                      But she found the mountain, and it was older than her,
                      and it called her with comfort, and eventually, she slept.
                      The first bolded sentence could be a reference to past association with Uratha & Strix, just a citation of Protean lost to Torpor or a bit of both.
                      The second, reference to either a physical crossing of the polar circle, or perhaps an ice age long before story as those who measure it with words, texts and calendars know it. Maybe both even. Up to a ST's preferences for a game i guess.

                      (And now i'm imagining caches of reliquaries with mammoth, smilodon, wooly rhinoceros' or worse blood within the mountain....)

                      Note: due to discussions with other people in the forums i came to learn of Spilled Blood and it has crossed my mind that the polar circle/ice age hint could also point out to some sort of connection of this Kogaion with the Amari clan, what's interesting too.
                      Last edited by Baaldam; 10-03-2020, 03:29 AM.

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