Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A 2E City

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A 2E City

    So with all this time, I'm populating LA with monsters. So this thread is about vampires. How does a society of vampires function? I know there is the prince, but I'm sure there are more people in titled positions. And what about the covenants? What positions do they have on a city by city basis? I'm going to re read the vampire book again to get a feel for it, but I think that this community can make it easier to figure it all out.



  • #2
    I'd really look into getting Guide to The Night as it EXTENSIVELY goes over the different types of cities as ruled by different clans/covenants.

    Otherwise, keep in mind that the Prince system is just the stereotype. Depending on who's in charge it could be much more democratic or oligarchic. Usually there's also a Sheriff, Hounds, Notaries (if the person in charge is Invictus), shit like that.

    Comment


    • #3
      The way I do it, I try to go individual by individual.

      Keep in mind what vampires need. They need blood, money, a place to sleep, help cleaning up their messes, and something they enjoy or find meaningful. Start off asking where there are niches for kindred to fill, and how they can use a niche to get themselves the things they need.

      Where they either have direct access to a feeding source (hospital workers, blood banks, sex workers, butcheries, abbatoirs, etc.) or where food would be easy to get because you're in proximity to vulnerable people (addicts in recovery and out, land lords, homeless shelters, religious groups/cults). These are all places where someone can spend all their time. They're the farmers, shepherds and ranchers. Their main source of food can be their source of income and power. They can sell access to their herds and hunting grounds. Or they can restrict it. Or they can just sneak around and hope nobody notices them living on a gold mine.

      Next, you have people who can provide a resource and services to others (groups or individuals). Maybe it's real estate, or money, or entertainment. Are they selling their resources to covenants, clans, their family, or just individuals?

      Now, if they're selling access to a resource, how to they keep others from taking it by force? Are they physically powerful, or have lots of friends, or something else?

      If they provide a service, why do they do it? Do they believe in what they do, or is it a thing they enjoy, or was it already their job before they died.

      This will all help you get their Dirge, maybe their Mask, probably some skills.

      At the is point, I try to figure out why they were embraced. It's mentioned in a handful of places, but most vampires have some kind of relationship with their sire. Sires invest energy and emotion and resources and advice into their childer. So what made the sire decide "This guy should be an immortal cannibal,"? Did they have an emotional connection, was the childe well placed job-or-relationship-wise, or just so good at what they did the sire wanted to preserve it forever? This can give you insight into their human template. Probably their touchstone too.

      Then, think about whether they've accidentally killed yet. How did they react the first time, and how did they make the decision to continue on? This should help with their Dirge and touchstone as well.

      Finally.... Once I've got all that, I try to think what my story needs, or what would be a fun, memorable character. What role do they play - either as an ally or antagonist or set dressing. What level boss do you want them to be.

      Comment


      • #4
        So I read through that guide to the night section, and it will help me refine it, but I'm still trying to figure out positions in a princedom. I read the 2e book and found with Prince and his Primogen cabinet and covenant representatives, the Sherriff and his hounds, and the harpies. Anything else? And how do I find how a covenant is structured within a city, not just about controlling the city.


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by HunterInTheNight View Post
          So I read through that guide to the night section, and it will help me refine it, but I'm still trying to figure out positions in a princedom. I read the 2e book and found with Prince and his Primogen cabinet and covenant representatives, the Sherriff and his hounds, and the harpies. Anything else? And how do I find how a covenant is structured within a city, not just about controlling the city.
          Great Sources are.

          What's already been mentioned
          1e Clan Books
          1e Covenant books
          Damnation city
          The 1e New Orleans book
          Nice Forum Discussion

          Pick a travel guide for a city from a bookstore when reopened and those are very useful.
          You could scope out a couple of businesses and or districts for the Elysium and court. Note which court member own a few business.

          https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...-court.772921/
          Last edited by Graylion; 05-03-2020, 01:22 AM.



          Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
          Current Focus
          Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
          Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is a very raw text doc of my Kindred Court

            Keep in mind this is for about 500 vampires in a fantasy/dark era type game

            Link



            Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
            Current Focus
            Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
            Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

            Comment


            • #7
              Whoops double post.
              Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 05-03-2020, 12:31 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HunterInTheNight View Post
                So I read through that guide to the night section, and it will help me refine it, but I'm still trying to figure out positions in a princedom. I read the 2e book and found with Prince and his Primogen cabinet and covenant representatives, the Sherriff and his hounds, and the harpies. Anything else? And how do I find how a covenant is structured within a city, not just about controlling the city.
                I mean, how are most clubs or political organizing groups structured? Or religions and cults? Like, these aren't necessarily militaries with defined hierarchy. They're people with political parties and religious beliefs. There's probably going to be a bit of overlap/bleedthrough.

                If you look at a human city government, people of any party can occupy most any position. Repubs and Dems both work in the Department of Parks and Rec. And asuming your city is in some thing like an equilibrium, then people are more or less where it makes sense for them to be.

                So first task is figuring out who is in charge because they'll decide because that will determine which jobs get funding.

                If the Carthians are in power, there might be a department in charge of making sure everybody gets blood rations. And that's going to be a very powerful position to occupy, both in the city and in the covenant. So maybe you have senators and the Premier, and the cabinet. And someone in charge of the justice system... But if the Invictus are in charge, they'll have different priorities and probably won't fund some kind of blood UBI. They'll be more interested in maintaining the Masquerade and acquiring power and money and dealing quietly with people who are inconvenient.

                The Dragons have three branches though. Researchers, administrators, and cops/soldeiers/guards.

                I'm honestly not sure how a Sanctum or Circle would look. Rose's Bite Me mentioned that the Sanctified would be your shoot-em-up group. So maybe you have clergy, paritioners, librarians/antiquarians/academics, and enforcers.
                Last edited by DubiousRuffian; 05-03-2020, 02:52 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Have you decided which covenant is in charge? Things change based on that but basically the Prince is the guy in charge if you’re having a prince (you don’t have to, the Carthians like to spread power out to keep dictators from showing up) but since there could be very powerful vampires in the city that don’t want to be prince but aren’t willing to take orders what often happens is powerful groups and individuals are given territory and left to do their own thing. This means that the local Regents are often the most influential factor in how local vampires conduct themselves with only a few hard laws set by the prince.
                  Ignoring people who help the prince function directly the next thing to consider is probably Sheriff who enforces those laws that do exist, how they do this is different for each sheriff and they might not actually be intended to succeed at all their tasks since it may be inconvenient to actually have to bring charges against the influential. Also of note is the Herald who’s job is to get word to the common vampires when the prince gives a decree, again this changes from city to city.
                  Harpy is best summed up as a vampire who talks about the behaviour of other vampires. At the most official this could be a debt record so when someone owes you a favour they announced it to the harpy and you can destroy their reputation if they refuse to repay it or reporting on who’s risking mortals learning that vampires exist. On the other hand it could be the vampire gossip magazine in snarky remarks and back handed compliments or it could be both.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So, one thing to keep in mind is that the Requiem Covenants are less monolithic world-spanning organizations (like Masquerade sects) and more broad archetypes that tend to show up whenever you get a critical mass of vampires in one place. The idea of overcoming the limits of the vampiric condition, for example, didn't start with Dracula—Ancient Mysteries presents a Buddhist covenant in Thailand who try to break free of desire and attachment and who have developed things mechanically equivalent to Coils through their practices. And while the modern Carthian Movement took its name from a French revolutionary author, there have always been vampires looking at mortal political systems and being inspired by them.

                    (The published Requiem books are, annoyingly, somewhat inconsistent on this. Other parts of the books do portray the Covenants as monolithic global conspiracies. But the "broad archetypes" version is the take that I like best, and the one that I think is most supported.)

                    So, think about what roles each archetype might play in your city. Are the Invictus the political rulers of the night? Or are they the reigning government's secret police, enforcing the Masquerade with ruthless efficiency? Are they based on a feudal hierarchy, or a crime syndicate? Are they allied with the Lancea or with the Ordo? Or something else entirely?

                    The "classic" five-covenant city involves the Invictus in power with a Prince, Seneschal, Sheriff, and Harpy; the Lancea at their right hand maintaining religious orthodoxy; the Circle and the Carthians as broad alliances of different political and religious beliefs united only by their dislike of the powers that be; and the Ordo staying neutral while they do their mad science. And there's nothing at all wrong with running a city this way! It's a classic for a reason. But there are a lot of different ways to combine the ideas of "enforcers of the Masquerade and the status quo", "organized religion based around a divine purpose", "mortal political ideas applied to the dead", "channelling mystical power through the Blood and the Beast", and "transcending the limits of vampirism". What do you get if you combine the Circle and the Ordo into one group in your city? Or any other pairing? You can even pick one at random and see if it sparks any ideas.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks these helped a lot. Just one more question, considering this is a multisplat city, how many vampires do you think would live in LA?

                      Originally posted by Draconis View Post
                      (The published Requiem books are, annoyingly, somewhat inconsistent on this. Other parts of the books do portray the Covenants as monolithic global conspiracies. But the "broad archetypes" version is the take that I like best, and the one that I think is most supported.)
                      One of my older headcanons was that the invictus was a global organization, and it only sustained its elegant richness by its job of keeping up the masquerade. But all of the masquerade. So anytime a new changeling came out confused, the invictus and its internet people would be on the lookout, find them, and get them settled with their own kind so they wouldn't breach the masquerade.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Late first edition and second edition have been much better about setting them up as regional powers. The big five all rose up in Europe (four of them tightly connected to each other in various ways; don't know enough about the Carthians to say about them) and has spread with the Europeans to different colonies, which is why they're also so ubiquitous in America.

                        Once you get out of those spheres, they main five become much rarer, being replaced by local/regional Covenants. Some of those Covenants do use the same rules as their counterpart in the big five while others have their own unique advantages. Yes, that means that the five main Covenants can be (and is) used as broad archetypes, but they are also organisations with their own history and (sometimes extremely loose) structure.


                        Bloodline: The Stygians
                        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                        Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HunterInTheNight View Post
                          Thanks these helped a lot. Just one more question, considering this is a multisplat city, how many vampires do you think would live in LA?
                          As many as you need, they’re not a unified group unless they’re forced to be so they won’t all cooperate against another faction unless the story requires them to. Vampires are going to be three vampires here that are quite happy for the local Werewolves to keep the other vampires away, 20 Carthians with a block of their turf willing to all come together to deal with any threat, the Invictus elder who has operations throughout the city who can send all sorts of things to see you off if you become a problem and the loner who is just scary enough that no one has managed to take his territory from him yet.
                          If they need numbers they can send ghouls or they might be able to embrace without getting in trouble. Every government is different and with vampires it’s not even standard how different groups within the same city are treated.
                          If you really want a number take the population of the city and divide it by 1,000 or 10,000 or any other amount, it won’t give you a correct answer that no one will question but it will give you a number. Divide them up as you wish once you have that number, it’s as good as any other method and if you do want a more detailed answer tell us how you’ve worked out the others and we’ll try to do the same.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HunterInTheNight View Post
                            So with all this time, I'm populating LA with monsters. So this thread is about vampires. How does a society of vampires function? I know there is the prince, but I'm sure there are more people in titled positions. And what about the covenants? What positions do they have on a city by city basis? I'm going to re read the vampire book again to get a feel for it, but I think that this community can make it easier to figure it all out.

                            The core book gives you some essentials, but beyond that it's all up to own your preferences and convenience as a ST.

                            Want a city with hundreds of decadent immortals lost in byzantine age-lost intrigues? Feel free to create local sub-factions, splinter cults, regional "rogue" covenants with peculiar agendas and so on.

                            Would instead prefer a more savage and marauding version instead, more Lost Boys or Near Dark style bands of patroling/nomadic predators? The covenants are gone, their members consumed by one or more bands of Belial's Brood, VII, worshippers of the Unholy, maenads or whatever bogeymen or women you are in the mood to come up with.

                            Once, because i wanted a "100% personal horror, no need for politics" game for players with no familiarity with Masquerade or Requiem, i made a (1e) game where the PCs where "evolved larvae" that became kindred through the actions of another even older "from Larva to vampire" mentor, exploring the city together to find only utterly bestial undead stalking across the metropolis hidden places. Later on they would find a "court" of kindred, pretty much the last half-dozen that managed to escape with their sanity & unlives (kind of) intact from a Strix purge that killed or reduced all others to draugr, who would them spawn larvae (much like once the PCs themselves) here and there. And the survivors didn't really know why "the Prince's Club" (himself basically a neonate) is avoided like the plague by the owls.

                            How much or how little a city sticks or not to the formula/script of the corebook is completely up to your own desires and crazy imagination.

                            Mix, match, break and rebuild things up, from books, films, comics or whatever inspires you, filch a weird image or two your players give and them a new spin (i once homebrewed a whole clan out of twisting a khaibit player's initial wish for an ancient sire harkening to roman times). And once again by taking the "dying person made into a Jullii by the strix" bit of lore and reskining it with black cats in place of owls for a character's backstory. Later on i found out the Kanaima in the Skinchangers bluebook and developed those feline strix expies further, with personalities and priorities very much their own.

                            How many, how few or how weird they are, you decide for fun and profit.
                            Last edited by Baaldam; 07-16-2020, 12:48 PM.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X