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How are the Invictus and the WoD Camarilla different?

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  • How are the Invictus and the WoD Camarilla different?

    I know the Invictus are descended from a Roman group called the Camarilla.


    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

  • #2
    The OWoD Camarilla are a global conspiracy dedicated to convincing the world that vampires don't exist through any means necessary. They have a feudal structure designed to be eternal; they're still ruled by some of the original founders of the group, and that's unlikely to change any time soon; for example, they've banned any and all modern technology in a sloppy attempt to cover up for how they don't understand anything new.

    The CofD Camarilla was something different. They were the vampiric counterpart of the Roman Empire, the largest-scale vampiric organization in recorded history, and both the Invictus and the Carthians look back on it as something great and wonderful (and quasi-mythical) that's never been replicated since. (The name is a reference to OWoD, of course, but the substance is different.)

    The CofD Invictus is much less centralized. By default, in CofD, there aren't any vast global conspiracies keeping everyone brainwashed—everything is more regional, and there's no single leader of the Invictus of the world. They preserve the Masquerade, not by telling the world that vampires don't exist, but by covering up breaches and keeping people from realizing that specific individuals are vampires (because that's what might provoke them into taking action; a specific threat is more actionable than a vague and generic one). They're the 1% of the 1% with all the money and power, somewhat like the OWoD Ventrue, and are generally slow to change, but they'll embrace anything that gives them an edge (so they recognize that cell phones exist, for example).

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    • #3
      The Camarilla is an authoritarian vampire government. They form policies, hand down edicts, and enforce them. They pursue the Tradition of Masquerade in a systemic fashion, censoring news and disappearing witnesses, because it is a collective threat to vampires and therefore to their system of power. Their power is international and their tendrils snake through nations and corporations.

      The Invictus is a secret society and a power bloc, something like Skull and Bones or earlier incarnations of the Masons. They are an alliance of local vampires most influenced in the naked pursuit of temporal power and authority, colored with the aesthetics of tradition. They lobby and politic in local vampire governments, but are not identical with it. They are interested in the Tradition of Masquerade in a localized fashion, intimidating and silencing witnesses because a herd that knows somebody locally is a vampire might go looking for other vampires and therefore threaten the individual members of the Invictus. Their power is like a network of feudal kingdoms, with Invictus members preserving their own local power in a domain, and who may or may not trade favors between each other to achieve interregional effects. They are stuffy suits and old men, but also street gangs and any other group whose greatest emphasis is on personal power and fraternity sealed through traditions and customs.

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      • #4
        I understand. Thank you.


        “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

        Comment


        • #5
          I know the question has been answered to satisfaction, but since I literally just ran a V20 game and am now running a VtR game, this is what I used as the explanation to my players:

          The Invictus (literally “the Unconquered”), also known as the First Estate, is the closest thing that Requiem has to the Camarilla, in the sense that it’s a political, mostly-secular order of Vampires that considers its chief goal to be upholding the Masquerade. They’re the ones where, if they run the city, the city’s offices are most likely to resemble the classical Prince/Primogen/Sheriff structure, though in general cities within the Chronicles of Darkness have a lot more varied leadership.

          Important, and quite different from the World of Darkness’ Camarilla, is that the Invictus are absolute technophiles. Despite being an ‘old’ Covenant, the Invictus knows that keeping ahead of technology is the best way to keep the Masquerade strong and the Invictus on top. It aggressively recruits young Vampires that it considers the best candidates, luring them with promises of wealth and comfort and, one day, leadership of the Covenant in turn.

          The Invictus is the heir to the Camarilla of its universe, having been born from its ashes in Europe. The name, it claims, is because it, unlike the Camarilla itself, never fell. For a while, it almost became a new Camarilla, having a Night Emperor elected by all of its most important Princes. It all fell apart, though, since it’s real hard for Vampires to be happy being coordinated in a central manner.

          The Invictus’ main differentiation from other Covenants lies in two things. First, it focuses on Oaths. Invictus Oaths effectively give advantages to both sides of the bargain, so long as they keep to it. The Invictus have Oaths for servitude, punishment, imprisonment, coterie formation, marriage, dynastic formation and more.

          The second thing the Invictus really likes is cyclical dynasties. A lot of older Kindred tend to form a sort of combined alliance/marriage of three or more in which some members are asleep while others are awake, which gather a collective estate to work with. This is of great benefit since it means that the sleeping Kindred won’t be deprived of everything when they wake up: The dynasty’s collective resources are grown and managed by whichever members are awake.

          The Invictus rule the most cities out of all Covenants. They are, in many cases, allied to the Lancea et Sanctum, since they’re both born from the Camarilla, and in the European heartlands where they originated, the church and nobility were traditionally strongly allied.

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          • #6
            I will say that the first edition Invictus book ended up being one of my better sources of inspiration for how I do large parts of the Camarilla in Masquerade.


            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Draconis View Post
              The CofD Invictus is much less centralized. By default, in CofD, there aren't any vast global conspiracies keeping everyone brainwashed—everything is more regional, and there's no single leader of the Invictus of the world. They preserve the Masquerade, not by telling the world that vampires don't exist, but by covering up breaches and keeping people from realizing that specific individuals are vampires (because that's what might provoke them into taking action; a specific threat is more actionable than a vague and generic one). They're the 1% of the 1% with all the money and power, somewhat like the OWoD Ventrue, and are generally slow to change, but they'll embrace anything that gives them an edge (so they recognize that cell phones exist, for example).
              There is an actual Big Conspiracy that will appear in the contagion cronicles the cryptocracy (A species of tecnocrazy made of members of multiple splats and minor conspiracies)
              http://theonyxpath.com/the-cryptocra...ion-chronicle/


              https://www.deviantart.com/cicerondixit/gallery

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Leandro16 View Post

                There is an actual Big Conspiracy that will appear in the contagion cronicles the cryptocracy (A species of tecnocrazy made of members of multiple splats and minor conspiracies)
                http://theonyxpath.com/the-cryptocra...ion-chronicle/

                Yes, there's now room for that option in the 2nd editions. But emphasis might be put on the "room for that option" of CoD in contrast to the norm of oWoD/cWoD, where it would reach a level of ST freedom asphyxiation by metaplot at times, specially in the turn of century with the 3rd editions.

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