Create the most powerful starting combat Vampire. (Only For Fun)

[ThatOneKiasyd]

Rules: Standard VtR 2e character generation. All books allowed. If willing to, please also include where the character would go from there.

I've recently gotten into VtR, (VtM fan) and I saw a past forum saying that a starting Gangrel could hit someone for ~50 dice if they wanted to. I don't know how true these claims are, but it peaked my interest into seeing how insane standard characters can become, so I've made this thread sate my curiosity. As a note this is purely for fun, and wouldn't be used in most games with a sane ST.

[Tessie]

For straight up dice you'd have to go either Daeva or Nosferatu because of Vigor.
But for a better (more well-rounded) fighter Gangrel is pretty good. Especially if we break out the grappling rules as they use the same Skill as claws.

[Live Bait]

Gangrel Ordo is the obvious build for damaging Kindred but you won’t be getting the best out of it at character creation, Daeva is the best if you want dice pools because they have better defence (probably Boxing style and light weapons but I don’t have my books with me so I can’t post a build yet)

[Marcus]

Rules: Standard VtR 2e character generation. All books allowed. If willing to, please also include where the character would go from there.

I've recently gotten into VtR, (VtM fan) and I saw a past forum saying that a starting Gangrel could hit someone for ~50 dice if they wanted to. I don't know how true these claims are, but it peaked my interest into seeing how insane standard characters can become, so I've made this thread sate my curiosity. As a note this is purely for fun, and wouldn't be used in most games with a sane ST.

Starting PG with 50 dice seems quite fake. I can barely reach 50 dices with BP 7-8.
Anyway, to maximize dicepool at creation stage I'd go for Daeva but I can't see how to increase the pool above 23 (26 using willpower) without any PX spent in any other discipline/devotion.

5 strength + 5 brawl + 1 specialty + 3 vigor + 3 BP (frenzy) + 4/6 boosting strength with blood (note if you spend all the blood to boost str you can't activate Vigor for 3 automatic damages) + 3WP.

[Heavy Arms]

50 sounds like a 1e multi-attack build where all the dice pre-Defense are being used.

I think if you're going for a Frenzy based max, you'd need to drop to BP 2 and taking the Riding the Wave Merit to at least 3 dots (so you can apply WP to your attack rolls). While not a pure boost to the dice-pool, this also improves your jumping along with Vigor, making it a lot easier to close on targets. Also All out Attack for another +2.

Having 2 Merit dots would also let you eke out a few more dice. Area of Expertise to increase your Specialty to 2 is one example.

There's also some variability on group tolerance regarding Specialty stacking. It isn't impossible to put all your Specialties in Brawl for +3 instead of +1. If you used those two spare Merit dots for Area of Expertise x2 it would be +5 instead of +1.

Though all of that nets you 26 or 29 w/WP. Though this is a complete glass cannon build with zero defense other than hope you kill the other person first.

[ThatOneKiasyd]

Is there anything in the books that would allow specialty stacking? Or is this a completely far fetched idea?

[Tessie]

Is there anything in the books that would allow specialty stacking? Or is this a completely far fetched idea?

Iirc, yes, and even if it isn't explicitly mentioned there's no reason to think it wouldn't be allowed.

[Live Bait]

Throwing a few thoughts together before attempting a build.
Merits. Professional Training is a must, the second dot gives you 9 again, the forth a dot in a skill and the fifth lets you make a roll a rote action so any dice that aren’t a success are rerolled. I’m going to assume you have a coterie mate that can give you access to Resources 5 when you need it and I’m also going to assume Mystery Cult Initiation is unavailable to avoid using it to get merits on the cheap and keep Supernatural merits off limits for the most part. I think that’s everything worth talking about in the mortal core, Fighting Styles can wait until we have our characters more fleshed out. Vampire has an Invictus Oath that gives you access to another Kindreds Discipline and access to the Tasked condition should you be so inclined but nothing else I would consider relevant at this stage. Secrets of the Covenants gives each Covenant a fighting style, the Carthians get a strong first strike and some staying power from theirs which isn’t too bad, the Circle has a bodyguard style that doesn’t give you what you want if we’re sticking to damage output combat monster, the Invictus one is for social characters so skip, the Sanctified one is focused on magic users so I’m going to skip it but the Dragon one pretty good if you plan on taking a beating and the final dot is good if you have a high damage weapon. All in all I suspect Dragons are the best covenant since they also get Coils but a first strike build could work depending on who you are fighting. I’ll edit later when I have time but feel free to tell me if you think I’ve missed anything so far.

[Heavy Arms]

Specialty stacking is explicitly allowed on page 169 of VtR 2e.