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Uplifted revenant as only way to get clan vampires

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  • Uplifted revenant as only way to get clan vampires

    So i really like revenant in the game and on thinking of ways to integrate them in a city i had an interesting idea/thought experiment.

    What if, the only way of becoming a clanned vampire (nosferatu, gangrel, mekhet, etc) was by passing first through the revenant stage.
    Essentially no one can be embraced in a clan from a mortal.
    First they become a revenant, throught the usual way (roll blood potency for success). Then the only ways of getting a new member of a clan would by either being uplifted into that clan or ... well diablerising a clanned vampire.

    The first effect i feel that would have would be a more ... uncontrolled population of vampires. Its not impossible and the higher the blood potency the higher the chances but most of the time you cant really choose a mortal to embrace.

    I think it would create a nice tension between the revenants who would take shitty jobs and favours in the hopes of being uplifted somenight and the vampire who would be very nervous at thebidea of revenant diablerising them to uplift themselves.

    It would be interesting to continue figuring out how each covenant approach this situation.

    My big worry is that revenants are not stable enough to form a consistent population in a domain.
    As i remember the mechanics they burn out pretty fast and it might be necessary to soften them a bit if i want it to be feasible for a revenant to have to work for 20 years (100 of you want to join the invictus 😜) to join a clan.


    Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 2 years old son and now a beautiful new baby.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
    So i really like revenant in the game and on thinking of ways to integrate them in a city i had an interesting idea/thought experiment.

    What if, the only way of becoming a clanned vampire (nosferatu, gangrel, mekhet, etc) was by passing first through the revenant stage.
    Essentially no one can be embraced in a clan from a mortal.
    First they become a revenant, throught the usual way (roll blood potency for success). Then the only ways of getting a new member of a clan would by either being uplifted into that clan or ... well diablerising a clanned vampire.

    The first effect i feel that would have would be a more ... uncontrolled population of vampires. Its not impossible and the higher the blood potency the higher the chances but most of the time you cant really choose a mortal to embrace.
    OR a kindred court adopting stricter body disposal/destruction procedures exactly to avoid such a potential epidemic.

    Unauthorized embracing and the verification of one's provenance and lineage might be checked with far greater strictness and severity, since anyone not vouched for could be a revenant, with all the headaches their presence in an area entails. The Invictus would have a field night with this kind of stricter enforcement of the Traditions for certain.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 12-21-2020, 08:27 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
      My big worry is that revenants are not stable enough to form a consistent population in a domain.
      As i remember the mechanics they burn out pretty fast and it might be necessary to soften them a bit if i want it to be feasible for a revenant to have to work for 20 years (100 of you want to join the invictus 😜) to join a clan.
      I don't really get why Kindred would wait so long with uplifting revenants. Sure, you get a great hold over them through the promise of uplifting, but you also have to take responsibility for a great liability. 20 years is a looong time to spend trying not to mess up and accidentally kill or seriously hurt a human in an uncontrolled waking hunger Frenzy (not to mention a great deal of time to preferably not to slip up and grant the prospective revenant a good opportunity for diablerie and self-upliftment). A year seems much more reasonable, and you should still get a solid social hold over your Childe for granting them the privilege of becoming true Kindred.


      Bloodline: The Stygians
      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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      • #4
        Pretty much what Baaldam said. Heavier emphasis on teaching fledglings to destroy the body if they kill someone accidentally while feeding.
        Also either less likely for kindred to keep ghouls or shittons of partial vinculum bound people because if they die in an accident 40-50 years later, they rise.
        The court appoints someone (or a few someones) tasked to patrol morgues and funeral parlors to discreetly damage the heart/brain of everyone who dies to prevent rising.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tessie View Post

          I don't really get why Kindred would wait so long with uplifting revenants. Sure, you get a great hold over them through the promise of uplifting, but you also have to take responsibility for a great liability. 20 years is a looong time to spend trying not to mess up and accidentally kill or seriously hurt a human in an uncontrolled waking hunger Frenzy (not to mention a great deal of time to preferably not to slip up and grant the prospective revenant a good opportunity for diablerie and self-upliftment). A year seems much more reasonable, and you should still get a solid social hold over your Childe for granting them the privilege of becoming true Kindred.
          Hm the years were mostly a joke.
          I meant by this that alot of kindred would use "spend X time in service to me and ill uplift you" as a way to use disposable pawns and never really intend to uplift them.


          Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 2 years old son and now a beautiful new baby.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post

            Hm the years were mostly a joke.
            I meant by this that alot of kindred would use "spend X time in service to me and ill uplift you" as a way to use disposable pawns and never really intend to uplift them.

            Honestly, i would imagine any relatively experienced kindred would see them as too much of a potential masquerade hazard to care for such deals.
            You can get much of the same with greater benefits and less risks from true neonates. In some ways they are even more of a headache than 1e Larvae.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


              Honestly, i would imagine any relatively experienced kindred would see them as too much of a potential masquerade hazard to care for such deals.
              You can get much of the same with greater benefits and less risks from true neonates. In some ways they are even more of a headache than 1e Larvae.
              The instability problem could be partially solved by having a dominion law that forces all new revenants to learn at least the first level of the discipline Chary.
              With so much revenants around finding a teacher would be easy.
              The third level is an easy way to impose a blood bond of them with the excuse of enforcing security.
              The fifth level on the other way could be declared outlaw, or awarded only to trusted servants

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              • #8
                Maitrecorbo congrats! 😊 On your new baby. And I like your revenant idea. I always thought Loki from Chicago by Night was probably a revenant who had been uplifted into the Mekhet. Also, I think Dracula began as a revenant and then uplifted himself into one of the clans (probably the Ventrue) when he began developing the Coils of the Dragon.


                “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

                  The instability problem could be partially solved by having a dominion law that forces all new revenants to learn at least the first level of the discipline Chary.
                  With so much revenants around finding a teacher would be easy.
                  The third level is an easy way to impose a blood bond of them with the excuse of enforcing security.
                  The fifth level on the other way could be declared outlaw, or awarded only to trusted servants

                  Must admit i'm not familiar at all with the discipline.

                  The main issue that comes to my mind with Revenants is their tendency to "leak" most if not all accumulated vitae every night when they rise, making them "waste" much and have far greater hunting requirements than full kindred.

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                  • #10
                    Isn’t that the Mikhaili clan Discipline?


                    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


                      Must admit i'm not familiar at all with the discipline.

                      The main issue that comes to my mind with Revenants is their tendency to "leak" most if not all accumulated vitae every night when they rise, making them "waste" much and have far greater hunting requirements than full kindred.
                      In short
                      Level 1
                      allows a revenant to reawaken with one blood point if he goes to slumber with a pool of at least three vitae
                      Level 2
                      increases the vitae gained from animals
                      Level 3
                      allows the revenant to drink vitae from a vampire without developing addiction, and half of the vitae gained is fixed in the blood pool after the slumber (max vitae retained=discipline level, it costs 1 will per use)
                      You can stole vitae from ghoul draining them to death
                      Level 4
                      Level three, ratio 1:1, drain ghoul without killing
                      Level 5
                      Drink vitae without developing blood bond, blood and willpower cost, activation roll not contested

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

                        In short
                        Level 1
                        allows a revenant to reawaken with one blood point if he goes to slumber with a pool of at least three vitae
                        Level 2
                        increases the vitae gained from animals
                        Level 3
                        allows the revenant to drink vitae from a vampire without developing addiction, and half of the vitae gained is fixed in the blood pool after the slumber (max vitae retained=discipline level, it costs 1 will per use)
                        You can stole vitae from ghoul draining them to death
                        Level 4
                        Level three, ratio 1:1, drain ghoul without killing
                        Level 5
                        Drink vitae without developing blood bond, blood and willpower cost, activation roll not contested
                        For a game that’s supposed to be rules light, this Discipline is really rules heavy. Any time I see a mathematical term like “ratio” in a Discipline my eyes kinda glaze over. (I guess that’s why I play WoD20 and V5 instead of CoD.)


                        “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                          For a game that’s supposed to be rules light,
                          It's not. It's very clearly not, by any metric of "rules light" this side of straight roleplaying.

                          this Discipline is really rules heavy.
                          It's a Discipline exclusive to revenants that lets them better survive some of the issues with being a revenant and gaining/retaining Vitae. Vigor it ain't, but it's also short enough to be written in slightly less space than most of the clan-specific Disciplines.

                          Any time I see a mathematical term like “ratio” in a Discipline my eyes kinda glaze over.
                          The word "ratio" does not appear in the Discipline. I am reasonably certain English is not Neos's first language and they are likewise not privy to your personal hangups about how they abbreviate "the Vitae you get from the previous power now sticks one-for-one instead of one-for-two."


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                            It's not. It's very clearly not, by any metric of "rules light" this side of straight roleplaying.

                            It's a Discipline exclusive to revenants that lets them better survive some of the issues with being a revenant and gaining/retaining Vitae. Vigor it ain't, but it's also short enough to be written in slightly less space than most of the clan-specific Disciplines.

                            The word "ratio" does not appear in the Discipline. I am reasonably certain English is not Neos's first language and they are likewise not privy to your personal hangups about how they abbreviate "the Vitae you get from the previous power now sticks one-for-one instead of one-for-two."
                            That’s even more complicated 😂. But thanks.


                            “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                              Maitrecorbo congrats! 😊 On your new baby.
                              Thank you 😁.
                              As you can imagine i am very very happy but also very very tired. Haha

                              Continuing on the revenants.
                              The discipline would help greatly reduce the problem of revenant being too unstable so i'm definitely taking note of that.

                              Its interesting that one of the first thing brought up would be that there would be strickter measures to make sure revenants dont rise up. I really hadnt thought in that angle.
                              Do you all think this would mean we'd see a much lower average population of vampires in a domain?

                              Also i had the thought that the Circle of the Crone would have a cruac ritual that would virtually increase the blood potency of a vampire only in regard to creating a revenant. Somehow it feels that the Circle would be the covenant the least hostile to the creation of revenants.


                              Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 2 years old son and now a beautiful new baby.

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