Bloodline Creation

[Excess]

Back in 1st edition I remember possible origins for Bloodlines like Embracing someone already tainted with the supernatural or trauma.

Now in 2nd edition I need to figure this out again. What does an elder do to actually create a Bloodline? Obsession? Intention? Ritual? Curse?

[Baaldam]

Back in 1st edition I remember possible origins for Bloodlines like Embracing someone already tainted with the supernatural or trauma.

Now in 2nd edition I need to figure this out again. What does an elder do to actually create a Bloodline? Obsession? Intention? Ritual? Curse?

All of the above and then some more, it all depends on circunstances and not always it starts with the vampire already an elder.

[Tessie]

Since Bloodlines are a generic concept that represents basically any way, shape or form a vampire can be modified, it's only natural that basically anything that sounds thematically appropriate and/or narratively interesting could lead to the rise of a Bloodline.
Embracing someone who already was altered in some way, having the Embrace occur during weird circumstances, being blessed and/or cursed by some entity or force, drinking blood from something weird or during weird circumstances, developed intentionally or accidentally through mysticism or Ordo experimentation or through other means, developed spontaneously with age or in response to an obsession or something, etc. All those examples have the potential to create a new Bloodline. It definitely doesn't happen every time, but sometimes it does happen.

[Excess]

All of the above and then some more, it all depends on circunstances and not always it starts with the vampire already an elder.

2nd edition says all Bloodlines start with an elder, then again it also said all Kindred owe heritage to the five main Clans, so there is that.

Perhaps I was too broad. Let me clarify: suppose I am an elder that decided that I will found a Bloodline. What steps do I have to take to make it happen? What will I experience as my blood changes?

[Baaldam]

2nd edition says all Bloodlines start with an elder, then again it also said all Kindred owe heritage to the five main Clans, so there is that.

Perhaps I was too broad. Let me clarify: suppose I am an elder that decided that I will found a Bloodline. What steps do I have to take to make it happen? What will I experience as my blood changes?

Well, i guess it depends very much on the elder's personality, interests and what it's actually looking for.
I suspect parts of the proccess might not be all that planned or even self-conscious depending on individual.

[Excess]

Well, i guess it depends very much on the elder's personality, interests and what it's actually looking for.
I suspect parts of the proccess might not be all that planned or even self-conscious depending on individual.

Ok then, let's say I am a Mehket that decided that I want to become a "shadow" of the mind as well. A slight mixture of Nosferatu and Ventrue in concept, I want to become a psychoactive mirror that emulates another's insecurities. Perhaps shedding Obfuscate for Nightmare and Dominate. A vampire that becomes your unliving nightmare that walked into the waking world.

[Excess]

How should my character plan this?

[Baaldam]

Ok then, let's say I am a Mehket that decided that I want to become a "shadow" of the mind as well. A slight mixture of Nosferatu and Ventrue in concept, I want to become a psychoactive mirror that emulates another's insecurities. Perhaps shedding Obfuscate for Nightmare and Dominate. A vampire that becomes your unliving nightmare that walked into the waking world.

Well, i would ask what the Mekhet already possesses that might already hint at this. Does the vampire have some facility by mundane or supernatural means, be it through a combination of skills, merit, discipline or devotion, with seeing a person's emotions or mimicking them?
How does losing Obfuscate fit into "becoming a shadow of the mind"? Is he or she maybe a Hollow Mekhet, with a wandering Ba/Ghost/Other that intrudes on people's dreams or even outright possesses them perhaps? Or a peculiar being closer to the Jiangshi clan of 2e than vanilla Mekhet?

Bloodline creation does not afaik have some clear mechanics beside certain BP requirements - and even those might be waived if one comes with a passable excuse for that. It's as much about the peculiarities of an individual character as anything, specially if we are talking about the bloodline's inceptor/founder.


Let me try to give an example, won't be perfect because it's late 1e more than 2e, but here we go:

A few years ago i played an "elders game" with a group of friends, all characters between 80-160 years as vampires. Because i had no strong image of a sire and wanted to mess a bit with the parts where Requiem is unlike Masquerade, i decided my character was never embraced but someone made vampire through a pact with a Strix-like being. Since my character would be Gangrel instead of Julii/Ventrue and to make things a little more different, i discussed with the ST messing with the "ill omens" imagery a little, instead of an owl of smoke, a black cat spirit, an associate of a witch of whom the PC was a lover before going to prison & execution for participation in a revolt. The cat offered to bring him back, if he accepted a small mirror in a chain that he had to put over his heart, under his shirt for the execution. For his black magic woman he accepted, his soul be damned, without thinking twice. The mirror was broken with the first shoot and the following night he - kind of - came back from the grave.

Anyway, since he already had an unusual origin and didn't see him as much of a politician or power broker, i decided to invest a good chunk of the large number of points in merits we got in supernatural ones. Playing into the whole "died and came back" angle i got Kindred Medium - he sees dead people, all the time - and a few other, similarly themed ones like Ghost-Eater & stuff. While at it, decided on a little character trait to complicate Baltazar's (my PC) unlife - an urge to bring justice/avenge the dead, what could lead into all kinds of trouble, since the ghosts he (usually) sees are from kindred-caused deaths....

A little after the chronicle started, the ST came up with the subject of childer. The rest of the players brushed it off, but i went "no idea, let me roll BP dice and see what happens" - and got 3 childer out of it!

While fleshing them out with the ST it was decided that all of them were visited by the cats early on their unlives, leading to some "interesting" ups & downs to each of them - his eldest childe in particular was somewhat resentful of all kinds of trouble the "damn cats" caused him due to his sire's ignorance/neglectfulness, while the youngest went full Crone with a vengeance because of it.

All of them shared some of his merits, so one might already speak of strong bloodline hints there (even though Baltazar was just BP 4). The cats up to this point were pretty much just Strix that meowed, an excuse to jumpstart trouble more than anything. His lover, the witch Ofelia, was still around as his loving but somewhat possessive wife, but more hook than fully stated NPC.

Then i came across Skinchangers and the Kanaima, south american jaguar spirits of vengeance. Not only will the spirits respond to proper prayers and offerings to help a person seek revenge, but they’ll animate dead bodies to seek out revenge on their killers in order to fuel the spirit’s hunger for revenge. As you can guess, i was instantly hooked and inserted them with nary a hint of doubt.

- Felix, the mysterious black cat connected with Ofelia and Baltazar, became a Kanaima under a more urbane, inoffensive-looking guise.

- Ofelia, who up to this point was simply "a witch" - what in brasilian & portuguese folklore involves some degree of blood-drinking & sacrifice - became a mix of Cihuateteo (from Wicked Dead) and Son of Phobos, a blood magician not wholy kindred nor mortal, with some hints of her being also "turned" into what she is by Felix' intervention. And the desire for revenge upon a treacherous lover now long dead.

- The history of Maria, the youngest acolyte childe, got some expansion: she was an university student, a kind of early wicca-type Ofelia met, became friends (and got into a fling) with back in the 70s and was considering for potential conversion. Until her sudden disappearance, Ofelia's tracking down friends & family and finding clues she was "disappeared" by the secret police, what leads to her presenting Baltazar to the girl's relatives - and tricking him into a "justice or vengeance" vow through their help. This personal hunt of his would snowball very hard into the "childer of lead" incident, where Baltazar, along with a posse of Carthians, Dragons and one or two Acolytes disgruntled with the military dictatorship nonsense would invade a secret torture camp, kill everybody and embrace any students or guerillas found, Maria included. Extra complication dots in that Baltazar taught all kindred present about the possibility of post-mortem embraces in the process.

So, as you can guess, the themes of interacting with dead, vengeance and justice became a major thing in many ways for all involved (Baltazar's other childer too, though in different ways).

[Excess]

When I said I was giving up Obfuscate, I meant that I had to exchange at least one Discipline for two others. Clans have three Disciplines while Bloodlines have four, not necessarily encompassing the original three. I wasn't as interested in hiding anymore as making myself known. As for motive? My character is a sadistic thug that wants his blood in on it.

[Baaldam]

When I said I was giving up Obfuscate, I meant that I had to exchange at least one Discipline for two others. Clans have three Disciplines while Bloodlines have four, not necessarily encompassing the original three. I wasn't as interested in hiding anymore as making myself known. As for motive? My character is a sadistic thug that wants his blood in on it.

That i got, i was asking myself why did you pick Obfuscate to throw away. The become a "shadow" of the mind bit kind of threw me off, made me think of lurking, more phantasmagoric terrors, that now i understand is not really your character's deal. As you said, he's more of a sadistic thug, someone that revels in brutalizing people and making people fear him.

Care to give something of a summary? Why was he embraced as a Mekhet, how he ended up deviating from "the norm" so to speak, how experienced and established in his city he is or what kind of ambitions & obsessions that might be leading him toward spawning a bloodline.

[Excess]

This thug learned early in life that he cannot torture his victims the way they can torture themselves. To really hurt someone requires knowing them. The sire looked at his voyeuristic tendencies and saw a good fit for his Clan, not questioning the context or motive for such things. For a long time he practiced the art of blackmail in the All-Night Society and gained an unspoken reputation for being far better at it than other Shadows. Obtaining Princedom and defacto controll over the other covenants still did not satisfy. Mastering the Clan Disciplines still did not satisfy. After all was said and done he wanted his victims to look at him as though he was their biggest fear. He was not settling for vicarious satisfaction anymore. I still want him to be phantasmagoric, just not lurking anymore. Sure, with Devotions he can appear as his victim's greatest fear, learn their fear, know how to act like their fear, where they hid the bodies and/or evidence. He wanted it all in one efficient and cheap package. Invisible because no one wants to see a dread worse than Nosferatu ugliness, until he forces them to look.

[Baaldam]

Well, i'd say it's a matter of experimenting with the ferreting out of secrets, studying fear, its sources and how mortals or kindred react to different brands of it - does the thug prince care for primal, instinctive fears of the kindred fire, sunlight or stranger-stronger predators? Or is he more interested in more human & rational fears like punishment, exposure of one's secrets, blackmail and more? What kind of powers does he possess, which he does not but might have an interest into developing?

Also, what about his brood, he does have one or not? If he does, what roles do they play in his operation or the city's power structure under the thug prince?Childer and other descendants are something of a major factor in the making and demarcation of a bloodline as such, instead of a random singular kindred with a bunch of weird powers & traits.

While it can certainly vary from country to country and even domain to domain, usually a bloodline being recognized as such by covenants like the Invictus or other organizations that might care about lineage requires kindred separated by more than two generations - the usual range of influence of blood sympathy - manifesting certain common traits. So, by those standards Baltazar & his childer that i cited above as an ingame example wouldn't be formally counted as a bloodline, as he has only one grandchilde - that he's not even aware of (but does the kindred mediumship, but i digress) - and at present no greatgrandchilder, with or without shared qualities.

[Excess]

It hews personal. The kind of fear that perhaps no one else shares.

Also, the project is mostly solitary.

Also, I have noticed that all Clan and Bloodline Banes follow punk genie logic. I noticed they also are as psychological as they are mystical. I am convinced that it is no accident. I think every aspect of the Kindred mental condition can be traced to Banes. Which leaves the question of which parts are the universal Banes of sunlight and fire responsible for. If you removed them, would the Beast disappear?