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Why no Fog of ages in 2e?

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  • Why no Fog of ages in 2e?

    I didn't realize there is no Fog of Ages anymore in 2e.
    What are the reasons for removing it? What was wrong with it?

  • #2
    It's not gone, it can still happen. It is just no longer automatically happening to all vampires in prolonged torpor.

    The reason was mainly people didn't like the implications for elder character development, having their memories effectively reshuffled. Now it's more like a terrifying worst-case scenario that's still available if you want to use it as a plot device or character arc element, but not an across-the-board affliction.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by moonwhisper View Post
      I didn't realize there is no Fog of Ages anymore in 2e. What are the reasons for removing it? What was wrong with it?
      I think it's part of a broader shift in 2e. Fog kinda went hand in hand with the idea of vampires becoming increasingly 'static' as they aged. Like, the ability to sleep is the equally-bad alternative to getting older and more static.

      2e makes being a vampire a lot better frankly. It's less of a curse, and in this iteration, the sleep has a different purpose, it wipes the vampire clear ready to acclimatise to a new era.


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      • #4
        As pointed out, you can still forget things, but it's meant to be more dramatically appropriate rather than magical amnesia. So you can still have a character who met interesting people and had interesting experiences without being mechanically encouraged to forget them and have characters wake up not knowing that they've been warring for thousands of years against the Prince or something.

        First edition's introduction to the Fog of Eternity was basically, 'When people hear about immortals they want to find out about what interesting historical events they've existed through, well lets have none of that.' Rose was trying to front-end the fun and monstrosity.
        Last edited by nofather; 07-04-2021, 06:11 PM.

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        • #5
          Fog of Ages was also an early part of Requiem that existed to keep the setting mysterious. One of the things the nWoD/now CofD wanted to do was get away from the deep lore and metaplot of the cWoD and leave more of the setting unkown and variable instead of having books detailing all the stuff that really happened (or books that were meant to present an idea for what really happened that the fandom treats as facts anyway). Fog of Ages helped establish why modern vampires didn't have answers to lots of questions despite vampires who were around for events around.

          Well before VtR 2e was official, it was pretty clear that Fog of Ages was superfluous. As the Requiem setting was flushed out, the game created a lot of ambiguity that doesn't care how vampires remember things. The game was more and more capable of maintaining that mysterious setting that STs can fill in however they want by just not having vampires gain super-human memory. Normal human memories + centuries of existing = uncertainty (either in the individual vampire, or in how reliable their memories really are). So 2e moved to that logical conclusion: instead of supernaturally induced memory weirdness, the Fog of Ages just describes a natural thing any human easily comprehends: memory is imperfect and it doesn't get better with age.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Michael View Post

            Fog kinda went hand in hand with the idea of vampires becoming increasingly 'static' as they aged. Like, the ability to sleep is the equally-bad alternative to getting older and more static.
            I'd say it did the opposite. Any elder who survived long enough lost their identity; they could only reinvent themselves, even if they based it on something that they could verify about their past. What does Felix, Speaker for Clan Mekhet in Justinian's Constantinople, have in common with Felix, the guy travelling with Count Dracula and pretending to be Old Bat's childe? Although for a Shadow, I suppose that's standard, even in 2E.

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