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(un) live as a vampire in a small village

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  • #16
    I'm not clear if this is meant to be using the Second Edition Requiem rules or not.

    I don't really get the significance of Humanity to the equation, since that doesn't innately alter feeding options. Is it supposed to be an inference of the motivation? That a higher Humanity vampire would be assumed to be more motivated to find a source of sustenance besides humans?

    We've got rules for feeding on animals and rules for feeding on human blood that has been stored or otherwise not taken fresh from the living, but not quite an intersection between them. However, given that both of those work on a principle of the blood being a far less potent meal, I think it would be reasonable to assume that animal blood not taken fresh is totally worthless, so a butcher is of no use. Your alternative is, well, a full cow is worth maybe about four Vitae, so you could drain it to death to sustain yourself for four nights without intense Discipline activity or similar power use. Cows dropping dead repeatedly over the course of days is the kind of thing that will be noted by the people with a financial stake in them (plus, well, you're damaging somebody's livelihood). Hell, not even feeding on the cows until they're dead is the kind of thing that will cause some suspicion, modern farmers keep careful track of the health of their livestock.

    The idea of Embracing another vampire for the purposes of feeding them... well first off, I'm pretty sure that torpid vampires can't feed in the first place, so the idea of keeping them in place indefinitely with a stake won't help (I have to think it is consistent with all portrayals in these games that blood becoming Vitae requires some actual act of consumption, so you couldn't just mainline it into the torpid body). But even if it did work, how does it help at all, if you're not at the high enough Blood Potency that you can only feed upon vampire blood? The statement there was "if humanity is not a concern" not "if you're required to feed on vampires", so this seems to be proposed as something a character chooses to do. But they're pinning another person in place in order to convert the same amount of animal blood that they could feed on directly into Vitae?

    Okay, I guess there is a matter of how animal blood is supposed to be a bit less palatable in addition to the fact that it doesn't convert as readily into Vitae as fresh human blood. In that case, the main reason to not be doing it is probably because you'll be addicting yourself to Vitae and blood bonding yourself to your erstwhile victim. Going by the mechanics, there's nothing to strictly prevent somebody from keeping their regnant trapped in such a manner, and in a messed up way it's compatible with the descriptions of what the experience of being bonded is like, but I'd definitely say that it qualifies as the kind of harm that causes Humanity breaking points. You could take a bane against that, but I think it would be reasonable for such a one to be pretty messed up.


    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

      The idea of Embracing another vampire for the purposes of feeding them... well first off, I'm pretty sure that torpid vampires can't feed in the first place, so the idea of keeping them in place indefinitely with a stake won't help (I have to think it is consistent with all portrayals in these games that blood becoming Vitae requires some actual act of consumption, so you couldn't just mainline it into the torpid body). But even if it did work, how does it help at all, if you're not at the high enough Blood Potency that you can only feed upon vampire blood? The statement there was "if humanity is not a concern" not "if you're required to feed on vampires", so this seems to be proposed as something a character chooses to do. But they're pinning another person in place in order to convert the same amount of animal blood that they could feed on directly into Vitae?
      You can feed yourself a torpid vampire.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Marcus View Post

        You can feed yourself a torpid vampire.
        I'm going to assume this is a response to the line within that paragraph about whether or not torpid vampires can feed.

        I have checked back upon the rules, and with the overall presentation find myself thinking that the circumstance of a vampire with higher Blood Potency being able to donate Vitae to rouse the torpid early is the sole circumstance in which they can feed while out like that. I mean really, they're not taking it while dormant; I'd expect it's more the case where the taste of it rouses them, and they can wilfully consume it.

        Given that staking a vampire is said to be something where they cannot awaken prior to the stake being removed, I would presume that even potent Vitae won't be taken in under that circumstance. They can't wake up, so they can't absorb it.

        Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.


        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

          I'm going to assume this is a response to the line within that paragraph about whether or not torpid vampires can feed.

          I have checked back upon the rules, and with the overall presentation find myself thinking that the circumstance of a vampire with higher Blood Potency being able to donate Vitae to rouse the torpid early is the sole circumstance in which they can feed while out like that. I mean really, they're not taking it while dormant; I'd expect it's more the case where the taste of it rouses them, and they can wilfully consume it.

          Given that staking a vampire is said to be something where they cannot awaken prior to the stake being removed, I would presume that even potent Vitae won't be taken in under that circumstance. They can't wake up, so they can't absorb it.

          Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.
          I can recall book saying that even the bare skin of a vampire can absorb viate. Blood spitted in an eye can result in a Blood bond as well. Now, I can't recall the exact page and I'm not looking for it either.
          I also think a torpid vampire can't really reject blood if forced to drink. What should he do, spit it out? I see it like feeding a comatose human being.
          But I guess anyone can interpret vampire physiology as it better fit their own view and game.
          Last edited by Marcus; 09-16-2021, 08:01 AM.

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          • #20
            Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.
            There's no Vitae gain but the blood processed through a staked vampire is vampiric vitae. Much better flavor and addictive.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
              Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.
              I think Marcus meant yourself as "doing the work yourself", and not "giving yourself for the staked vampire to feed".

              Like, put cow blood yourself into their mouth.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                I think Marcus meant yourself as "doing the work yourself", and not "giving yourself for the staked vampire to feed".

                Like, put cow blood yourself into their mouth.
                This..... 😂

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                  The idea of Embracing another vampire for the purposes of feeding them... well first off, I'm pretty sure that torpid vampires can't feed in the first place, so the idea of keeping them in place indefinitely with a stake won't help (I have to think it is consistent with all portrayals in these games that blood becoming Vitae requires some actual act of consumption, so you couldn't just mainline it into the torpid body).
                  Even if that's so, they don't have to be staked.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                    I can recall book saying that even the bare skin of a vampire can absorb viate. Blood spitted in an eye can result in a Blood bond as well. Now, I can't recall the exact page and I'm not looking for it either.
                    I did look, and found no reference to the idea of vampires imbibing Vitae in that manner (the blood in the eye thing is a way to make ghouls, but I feel as though exposing a living person's mucus membrane in the same manner as they could acquire a bloodborne disease is operating on different principles to vampiric feeding). Still, the difference does not matter, because...

                    Originally posted by Marcus
                    I also think a torpid vampire can't really reject blood if forced to drink. What should he do, spit it out? I see it like feeding a comatose human being.
                    No, not spit it out. I mean, depending on their posture, it might not actually flow down the throat (even if held upright to let gravity help, I'm not even sure if a throat with inert muscles can effectively swallow anyway, and that's before the matter of how the torpid body takes on the properties of a corpse).

                    But the thing is that it's not like feeding a comatose human. Vitae consumption is a mystical process, same as how torpor is a vampire being placed in a state where the force animating their corpse body each night is rendered inert.

                    Torpid vampires aren't exsanguinated, as the book repeatedly points out that spending Vitae does not actually reduce the quantity of blood in their body. It just stops having the supernatural quality. You could render a vampire torpid by slashing them to ribbons, let their natural regeneration spend Vitae to fix them up, and what you'll end up with is something that's going to stay a corpse filled with cold blood for at least the next few nights.

                    That's what I propose is the effect of placing blood in their mouth while they're torpid; it just seeps into the tissues and fails to undergo the process that converts it into Vitae, because that process requires the Beast to be alert and active.

                    Besides, in addition to consistency with the portrayal of torpor and of feeding, it's the sort of idea that undermines the point that vampires old enough that they can only feed on their fellows have a more difficult time of it. It seems to me as though somebody that strong would have an easier time making some nobody their private immobile food supply rather than going to sleep for a few decades to become weak enough to feed on living humans again.

                    Originally posted by Solomon Draak
                    There's no Vitae gain but the blood processed through a staked vampire is vampiric vitae. Much better flavor and addictive.


                    But being addicted to Vitae is not a helpful thing, least of all if a character is trying to keep a low profile.

                    That's before getting to Blood Bonding. I think there's a distinction between a character who is not concerned by Humanity and a vampire putting themselves into a state where they're continuously performing a breaking point against Humanity 1. That's a way to quickly become a draugr, unless you want to take on some weakness or taboo to make your behaviour even weirder.

                    Originally posted by monteparnas
                    I think
                    Originally posted by monteparnas
                    Marcus meant yourself as "doing the work yourself", and not "giving yourself for the staked vampire to feed".


                    That was my first assumption, but I supposed it made more sense as a reference to the only statement concerning being able to feed a torpid vampire. I said... something to it. I'll figure out if it had anything worth saying later.

                    Originally posted by Spender from the Hills
                    Even if that's so, they don't have to be staked.
                    That just means that they'll wake up eventually and be starving, which is a good way to get a frenzying vampire. That's the kind of thing that can really draw attention.


                    Vampire: the Requiem is generally not a game that is concerned with giving characters an easy out from needing to feed on people. The scenario of a lone Kindred living in a smaller community is one where it wants to explore the social dynamics caused by the requirement for their blood, the give and take, the careful line against performing the kind of Masquerade breach that more distantly removed Invictus might still pick up on and send somebody to deal with. It's not a game and setting where establishing that as your home is barely an inconvenience.

                    I think the more interesting way to develop the idea is to examine the ways in which members of smaller rural communities actually do relate to each other, what kind of night life they might have as an alternative to urban amenities, how they can gravitate around a particular pillar of the community. Your vampire might want to do something like regularly host the best barbeques, at which a few people get discretely taken aside and come back a bit woozy for a few days (probably drank too much). Maybe feed on some of the animals a bit to round it out, help you get filled up without taking too much from too many people at once.

                    Keeping in mind that the point of the barbeque is not itself the feeding, but to have people to engage with.


                    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                    Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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