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  • Solomon Draak
    started a topic (un) live as a vampire in a small village

    (un) live as a vampire in a small village

    Most Princes apply draconian laws about the vampire-human ratio, something about 100.000 - 1.
    So, to exist as a vampire in a 200-300 people village looks like an impossible proposition, right?

    Well...
    mabye not, all in all.

    Let's say the vampire ( a Neonate ) chooses an isolated village, small, unimportant, far from big cities and trafficked routes. Somewhere with a butcher's shop and pig / sheep / goat / cow herds.
    He uses the power of Vinculum to control the local butcher, finds an abandoned or unhinabited barn, or hut, or even house ( if hidden enough ), sun-proofs it, and it's done.

    If he's an high-humanity vampire he can subsist indefinitely on animal blood. Butcheries waste tons of it.
    If he's average-humanity he can keep a small herd of blood dolls, mabye alternate animal and human blood.
    If humanity is not a concern he can even Embrace some poor soul, stake him, feed him animal blood with a tube and subsist on sweet vampire Vitae.

    No princes, no sherifs, no laws, no risks, no need to hunt, just keeping unnoticeable and well-fed. Is it a realistically achievable plan?

  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post

    I can recall book saying that even the bare skin of a vampire can absorb viate. Blood spitted in an eye can result in a Blood bond as well. Now, I can't recall the exact page and I'm not looking for it either.
    I did look, and found no reference to the idea of vampires imbibing Vitae in that manner (the blood in the eye thing is a way to make ghouls, but I feel as though exposing a living person's mucus membrane in the same manner as they could acquire a bloodborne disease is operating on different principles to vampiric feeding). Still, the difference does not matter, because...

    Originally posted by Marcus
    I also think a torpid vampire can't really reject blood if forced to drink. What should he do, spit it out? I see it like feeding a comatose human being.
    No, not spit it out. I mean, depending on their posture, it might not actually flow down the throat (even if held upright to let gravity help, I'm not even sure if a throat with inert muscles can effectively swallow anyway, and that's before the matter of how the torpid body takes on the properties of a corpse).

    But the thing is that it's not like feeding a comatose human. Vitae consumption is a mystical process, same as how torpor is a vampire being placed in a state where the force animating their corpse body each night is rendered inert.

    Torpid vampires aren't exsanguinated, as the book repeatedly points out that spending Vitae does not actually reduce the quantity of blood in their body. It just stops having the supernatural quality. You could render a vampire torpid by slashing them to ribbons, let their natural regeneration spend Vitae to fix them up, and what you'll end up with is something that's going to stay a corpse filled with cold blood for at least the next few nights.

    That's what I propose is the effect of placing blood in their mouth while they're torpid; it just seeps into the tissues and fails to undergo the process that converts it into Vitae, because that process requires the Beast to be alert and active.

    Besides, in addition to consistency with the portrayal of torpor and of feeding, it's the sort of idea that undermines the point that vampires old enough that they can only feed on their fellows have a more difficult time of it. It seems to me as though somebody that strong would have an easier time making some nobody their private immobile food supply rather than going to sleep for a few decades to become weak enough to feed on living humans again.

    Originally posted by Solomon Draak
    There's no Vitae gain but the blood processed through a staked vampire is vampiric vitae. Much better flavor and addictive.


    But being addicted to Vitae is not a helpful thing, least of all if a character is trying to keep a low profile.

    That's before getting to Blood Bonding. I think there's a distinction between a character who is not concerned by Humanity and a vampire putting themselves into a state where they're continuously performing a breaking point against Humanity 1. That's a way to quickly become a draugr, unless you want to take on some weakness or taboo to make your behaviour even weirder.

    Originally posted by monteparnas
    I think
    Originally posted by monteparnas
    Marcus meant yourself as "doing the work yourself", and not "giving yourself for the staked vampire to feed".


    That was my first assumption, but I supposed it made more sense as a reference to the only statement concerning being able to feed a torpid vampire. I said... something to it. I'll figure out if it had anything worth saying later.

    Originally posted by Spender from the Hills
    Even if that's so, they don't have to be staked.
    That just means that they'll wake up eventually and be starving, which is a good way to get a frenzying vampire. That's the kind of thing that can really draw attention.


    Vampire: the Requiem is generally not a game that is concerned with giving characters an easy out from needing to feed on people. The scenario of a lone Kindred living in a smaller community is one where it wants to explore the social dynamics caused by the requirement for their blood, the give and take, the careful line against performing the kind of Masquerade breach that more distantly removed Invictus might still pick up on and send somebody to deal with. It's not a game and setting where establishing that as your home is barely an inconvenience.

    I think the more interesting way to develop the idea is to examine the ways in which members of smaller rural communities actually do relate to each other, what kind of night life they might have as an alternative to urban amenities, how they can gravitate around a particular pillar of the community. Your vampire might want to do something like regularly host the best barbeques, at which a few people get discretely taken aside and come back a bit woozy for a few days (probably drank too much). Maybe feed on some of the animals a bit to round it out, help you get filled up without taking too much from too many people at once.

    Keeping in mind that the point of the barbeque is not itself the feeding, but to have people to engage with.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spencer from The Hills
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    The idea of Embracing another vampire for the purposes of feeding them... well first off, I'm pretty sure that torpid vampires can't feed in the first place, so the idea of keeping them in place indefinitely with a stake won't help (I have to think it is consistent with all portrayals in these games that blood becoming Vitae requires some actual act of consumption, so you couldn't just mainline it into the torpid body).
    Even if that's so, they don't have to be staked.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
    I think Marcus meant yourself as "doing the work yourself", and not "giving yourself for the staked vampire to feed".

    Like, put cow blood yourself into their mouth.
    This..... 😂

    Leave a comment:


  • monteparnas
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.
    I think Marcus meant yourself as "doing the work yourself", and not "giving yourself for the staked vampire to feed".

    Like, put cow blood yourself into their mouth.

    Leave a comment:


  • Solomon Draak
    replied
    Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.
    There's no Vitae gain but the blood processed through a staked vampire is vampiric vitae. Much better flavor and addictive.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    I'm going to assume this is a response to the line within that paragraph about whether or not torpid vampires can feed.

    I have checked back upon the rules, and with the overall presentation find myself thinking that the circumstance of a vampire with higher Blood Potency being able to donate Vitae to rouse the torpid early is the sole circumstance in which they can feed while out like that. I mean really, they're not taking it while dormant; I'd expect it's more the case where the taste of it rouses them, and they can wilfully consume it.

    Given that staking a vampire is said to be something where they cannot awaken prior to the stake being removed, I would presume that even potent Vitae won't be taken in under that circumstance. They can't wake up, so they can't absorb it.

    Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.
    I can recall book saying that even the bare skin of a vampire can absorb viate. Blood spitted in an eye can result in a Blood bond as well. Now, I can't recall the exact page and I'm not looking for it either.
    I also think a torpid vampire can't really reject blood if forced to drink. What should he do, spit it out? I see it like feeding a comatose human being.
    But I guess anyone can interpret vampire physiology as it better fit their own view and game.
    Last edited by Marcus; 09-16-2021, 08:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post

    You can feed yourself a torpid vampire.
    I'm going to assume this is a response to the line within that paragraph about whether or not torpid vampires can feed.

    I have checked back upon the rules, and with the overall presentation find myself thinking that the circumstance of a vampire with higher Blood Potency being able to donate Vitae to rouse the torpid early is the sole circumstance in which they can feed while out like that. I mean really, they're not taking it while dormant; I'd expect it's more the case where the taste of it rouses them, and they can wilfully consume it.

    Given that staking a vampire is said to be something where they cannot awaken prior to the stake being removed, I would presume that even potent Vitae won't be taken in under that circumstance. They can't wake up, so they can't absorb it.

    Mind, in either case, it would not really help much with this scenario. There's no net gain of Vitae, you're giving up stuff that you already had only to take it back again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    The idea of Embracing another vampire for the purposes of feeding them... well first off, I'm pretty sure that torpid vampires can't feed in the first place, so the idea of keeping them in place indefinitely with a stake won't help (I have to think it is consistent with all portrayals in these games that blood becoming Vitae requires some actual act of consumption, so you couldn't just mainline it into the torpid body). But even if it did work, how does it help at all, if you're not at the high enough Blood Potency that you can only feed upon vampire blood? The statement there was "if humanity is not a concern" not "if you're required to feed on vampires", so this seems to be proposed as something a character chooses to do. But they're pinning another person in place in order to convert the same amount of animal blood that they could feed on directly into Vitae?
    You can feed yourself a torpid vampire.

    Leave a comment:


  • Isator Levi
    replied
    I'm not clear if this is meant to be using the Second Edition Requiem rules or not.

    I don't really get the significance of Humanity to the equation, since that doesn't innately alter feeding options. Is it supposed to be an inference of the motivation? That a higher Humanity vampire would be assumed to be more motivated to find a source of sustenance besides humans?

    We've got rules for feeding on animals and rules for feeding on human blood that has been stored or otherwise not taken fresh from the living, but not quite an intersection between them. However, given that both of those work on a principle of the blood being a far less potent meal, I think it would be reasonable to assume that animal blood not taken fresh is totally worthless, so a butcher is of no use. Your alternative is, well, a full cow is worth maybe about four Vitae, so you could drain it to death to sustain yourself for four nights without intense Discipline activity or similar power use. Cows dropping dead repeatedly over the course of days is the kind of thing that will be noted by the people with a financial stake in them (plus, well, you're damaging somebody's livelihood). Hell, not even feeding on the cows until they're dead is the kind of thing that will cause some suspicion, modern farmers keep careful track of the health of their livestock.

    The idea of Embracing another vampire for the purposes of feeding them... well first off, I'm pretty sure that torpid vampires can't feed in the first place, so the idea of keeping them in place indefinitely with a stake won't help (I have to think it is consistent with all portrayals in these games that blood becoming Vitae requires some actual act of consumption, so you couldn't just mainline it into the torpid body). But even if it did work, how does it help at all, if you're not at the high enough Blood Potency that you can only feed upon vampire blood? The statement there was "if humanity is not a concern" not "if you're required to feed on vampires", so this seems to be proposed as something a character chooses to do. But they're pinning another person in place in order to convert the same amount of animal blood that they could feed on directly into Vitae?

    Okay, I guess there is a matter of how animal blood is supposed to be a bit less palatable in addition to the fact that it doesn't convert as readily into Vitae as fresh human blood. In that case, the main reason to not be doing it is probably because you'll be addicting yourself to Vitae and blood bonding yourself to your erstwhile victim. Going by the mechanics, there's nothing to strictly prevent somebody from keeping their regnant trapped in such a manner, and in a messed up way it's compatible with the descriptions of what the experience of being bonded is like, but I'd definitely say that it qualifies as the kind of harm that causes Humanity breaking points. You could take a bane against that, but I think it would be reasonable for such a one to be pretty messed up.

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  • Solomon Draak
    replied
    I guess that would help mantaining sanity and humanity in the long term, too. Not a bad idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • monteparnas
    replied
    They would still want to be known by the town in some way simply because it makes things simpler. Be a veterinarian and find one or two common problems that can be addressed with a little supernatural help, and soon you'll be good enough for the community that a "lot" of them may have some idea about you without causing you problems, and you will be able to mingle with them (and keep your Humanity) without worrying too much about changing identities.

    Is it a rural town? help with the herds or keep pests at bay with Animalism. Is there a mine or a factory? You can help people caught in dangerous situations and ignore gas hazards. Get any power you have and find a way to be a benefactor for them and you're good to go.

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  • Solomon Draak
    replied
    That would be feasible and interesting but I wasn't thinking about an ambitious vampire.

    More a " I don't want to risk, I don't want to fight, I don't want problems, I don't want stress, I don't want surprises, I want safe and full access to Blood without hunting and effort".
    Virtue = Prudence, Vice = Sloth.

    ---

    By the way, training in something you like is fun, so it's compatible with sloth.

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post
    I mean, if you do not consider the psychology of a Vampire who is deciding to spend his eternity in a boring village of 200 people, seeing always the same faces, doing always the same things,
    I don't think the psychological challenges would be greater for a vampire than they are for a human, maybe even lower instead. But yeah, it takes a tranquility-loving person to live such a tranquil life, undead or not.

    One thing to consider is that in a small community you have a harder time cultivating absolute secrecy, but you can also drop the need for such a level of secrecy. The "town secret" is an old and well established trope that this vampire can use to great advantage. No need to blood bond everyone if the village is small enough for there to be no greater threat even when a good chunk of the population knows the truth, especially if you become one of the causes for the town's success and safety, or at least for the top dogs.

    You may have cults to yourself in the big city. In a community of 200 the town IS the cult.

    Just now I thought of a vampire that sells the town's services as mercenaries, effectively training their young as hunters and bringing profit for everyone. Making the entire town into a heaven, fortress and death trap from a supernatural standpoint.

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  • Neos01
    replied
    Originally posted by Solomon Draak View Post

    Actually, there is one thing - which in truth is many things - that a wise vampire with plenty of time and vitae, and no concerns, should do: train relentlessly .

    Since a vampire can learn to use the power of blood to enhance his body and Physical Disciplines without an instructor, doing a workout routine of weightlifting ( Strength, Vigor ), slip rope / speed bag ( Dexterity, Celerity ) , makiwara / wooden dummy ( Stamina, Resilience ), heavy bag / shadow boxing ( Brawl / Fighting Style ), calisthenics / parkour drill ( Wits / Athletics ) is a good way to spend the nights.
    To reach 5 in each of those would take decades, mabye centuries.

    Not to mention that mabye, just mabye, it is possible to enhance Blood Potency by meditation.
    .
    It depends heavily on the vampire preferences.
    A mental inclined one could spend time reading books, for training and entertainment.
    With a bit of obfuscation a social inclined one could assume fake identities every 50 years or so, and take an active role in the village community.
    I think that the key word here is HUMANITY.
    An high humanity vampire would probably engage in less suspicious activities than a low humanity one.
    And if things escalates, Dominate can erase memories...

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