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[Crazy ideas] What would you want out of a 3ed of Requiem ?

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  • [Crazy ideas] What would you want out of a 3ed of Requiem ?

    Everything is in the title, basically. What would you like to see in an hypothetical third edition of Requiem ? Be it lore, simple name changes for the Clans or even mechanics you think could be streamlined or something like that ?

    Personally, what I think we should get is the game firmly distancing itself for V:tM by ditching the names of the Ventrue, Gangrel and Nosferatu. I don't really have an idea about what to call them, of course (but I think a Latin, old Germanic and Slavic/Romanian/Hungarian would works best respectively), as as to not render the previous editions' lore about the Clans moot, we'd jsut know that Ventrue = Latin name from now on, without discounting anything said before.

    However, I think that over time, Requiem introduced Clans which could be used to replace entirely those three to make the setting more unique even if said Clans would also need some rework, of course. I'm not sure I'd like it in reality because it'd replace three out of them, but I think we could have :
    • The Amari replacing the Gangrel in the hardy survivor slot, even if it'd mean perhaps losing the purely bestial element of the Savages to better highlight the desperate nature of the Amari
    • The Pijavica taking the spot of the Nosferatu, I think they'd work really well with Nightmare even if they'd need some serious rework to be really successful and viable
    • The Akhud stealing the Ventrue's throne; they are, after all, lords in their own way, and I think their Clan weakness in 2ed would make a great counterpoint to their tyrannic ways, because they wouldn't be able to betray each other directly but would spend their time trying to find was to do it so indirectly that they wouldn't trigger their weakness
    Regardless of what they'd do with the main Clans, I'd love for the Jiang Shi to transition from possible real Clan to the youngest one. I think having them being a truly new Clan stabilizing and thus developping a new unique Discipline widely shared by its members only could be fascinating to explore. Especially if the Striges lose their shit over it.

  • #2
    Imma be honest, I hope no clan is ever "replaced". I'd rather have the clan number expanded. Don't subtract, add

    Though, I suppose for 3rd edition, which is pretty far off, I'd like for more mysteries of the strix to explore alongside systems (or really just lore to give you an idea) for navigating the politics of intra covenant stuff

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
      Imma be honest, I hope no clan is ever "replaced". I'd rather have the clan number expanded. Don't subtract, add

      Though, I suppose for 3rd edition, which is pretty far off, I'd like for more mysteries of the strix to explore alongside systems (or really just lore to give you an idea) for navigating the politics of intra covenant stuff

      Honestly, i would be interested in seeing alternative takes like other beings that NOT the Strix generating a clan or bloodline or even in something of a reversal, the Strix that we know as unintended creations of the twisted alien minds of old and demented kindred, among other possibilities to further muddy the terrain of where do the kindred come from and how do the Strix relate - or not - to them, in part or the whole.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
        Imma be honest, I hope no clan is ever "replaced". I'd rather have the clan number expanded. Don't subtract, add

        Though, I suppose for 3rd edition, which is pretty far off, I'd like for more mysteries of the strix to explore alongside systems (or really just lore to give you an idea) for navigating the politics of intra covenant stuff

        Well, I wouldn't want Requiem to have too many main Clans. It'd become a mess to follow and distinguish from Masquerade I think. But I'd also like the Lords, Savages and Haunts to get different names, so as to make clear that Requiem has stopped being held by his elder, so to speak.

        Break the blood bond Requiem, you can do it !

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ur-Than View Post


          Well, I wouldn't want Requiem to have too many main Clans. It'd become a mess to follow and distinguish from Masquerade I think. But I'd also like the Lords, Savages and Haunts to get different names, so as to make clear that Requiem has stopped being held by his elder, so to speak.

          Break the blood bond Requiem, you can do it !
          I just feel it's a change that's forced more than anything, while also alienating to many long time fans

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


            Honestly, i would be interested in seeing alternative takes like other beings that NOT the Strix generating a clan or bloodline or even in something of a reversal, the Strix that we know as unintended creations of the twisted alien minds of old and demented kindred, among other possibilities to further muddy the terrain of where do the kindred come from and how do the Strix relate - or not - to them, in part or the whole.

            More muddy origins would definitively be a plus. I'd alos like to see if with the development of the Striges but also other lines Vampires could or even should get some means to fight "spirits" or "ephemereal beings".

            I'm honestly torn about it. I could see Jiang Shi gaining such a Discipline, if only to make them truly distinct if they were ever promoted to full Clan status.

            Also, how would you think the Contagion would affect Vampires ? Could it explain their origin perhaps, since the Blood is said to be semi-alive and sentient, in a very virus way ?

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            • #7
              I don't know, as a rule of thumb I expect the core of a new edition to stay crossover-friendly but not crossover-oriented.

              Changing names or the list of clans would be problematic, but holding more to their "epithets" may be a fair solution, using "Savages" and "Lords" as main names, with a host of common names used around that would include "Ventrue" and "Gangrel".

              Adding clans would only be reasonable if there is a broad trope that isn't covered by the current combinations of clans/covenants yet in some way. I find it hard, but not impossible. But instead of creating a new clan, we could have better directions on how to do it ourselves, along with ideas and "seeds", reports of things that may or not be distinct clans, along with a discussion on why to create one and how it affects the game.

              Muddying waters is good, and as much as I like the Strix I miss more exploration on alternative origins for the Kindred, even better with ideas on how distinct origins for each clan could still result in compatible creatures. I personally love the idea that the clans may be actually completely unrelated species.


              #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
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              • #8
                Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                Adding clans would only be reasonable if there is a broad trope that isn't covered by the current combinations of clans/covenants yet in some way. I find it hard, but not impossible. But instead of creating a new clan, we could have better directions on how to do it ourselves, along with ideas and "seeds", reports of things that may or not be distinct clans, along with a discussion on why to create one and how it affects the game.
                I agree wholeheartedly on this - though it's sometimes easy to forget due to similarity in terms and mechanics, clans in Requiem fill a different narrative role in relation to Masquerade. Each more like it's own "undead archetype/race" with a possibly time-lost origin of its own. There's a reason the "extra clans" are connected to optional resources, niche eras/settings or a mix of both.

                Different clans in some cases might be different iterations of similar phenomena and change as a society and the culture the kindred leech from for their continued existence transform with times. Not to mention what a clan is IC and OoC can be different things - in fact i would say they most definitely are, considering how some "metaplot clans" are awfuly similar to the Core five to the point of being potentially subsumed into them.

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                • #9
                  On not-Clan matters:

                  1) Not have VtR in development at the same time as CofD core 3e, so VtR does not, for the 3rd time in a row, have disparities between how the main CofD core does things and of VtR does things because parallel development leads to different solutions to the same problem, and thus rules that don't work together well (ex: Discipline use in Chase or Investigation subsystems).

                  2) Not really VtR only? Kill the Condition bloat. Have ~5 standardized Condition templates for mundane Conditions, and universalize common supernatural Conditions and use Disciplines to separate how Dominate inflicted Mind Control is different from Mind Arcanum inflicted Mind Control. Keep VtR only Conditions to a minimum.

                  3) Give Bloodline creation some easier to handle guidelines.

                  4) Reduce the obstacles for vampires getting into the Underworld or Shadow so they have easier crossover potential as one of the few splats without simple access to the other realms of the CofD (the day/night part is already annoying enough).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    3) Give Bloodline creation some easier to handle guidelines.
                    Would be a start.

                    Actually, I would like for Bloodlines to be completely reworked. Right now we've got three or more different broad concepts stuffed into a single, limited design space that has to compete for a singular slot on the character sheet.
                    Like, imagine if Tremere and Scelesti were still treated like Legacies in Mage 2e. Or if Entitlements and Empty Changelings were just reduced to a set of Kiths in Changeling 2e. That'd be a huge step backwards. In my opinion, Vampire 2e should've already branched out with weirdness that does not fit the Bloodline model.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
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                    • #11
                      Do people count Tilts as Conditions too when pointing out Condition bloat? Cuz I think a lot of the “you are affected by a supernatural power” statuses could be Tilts, ‘non-combat’ Tilts. Save for things like Wanton, where you make knots out of the rope you were given.

                      Bloodlines, hmm… no idea how to tinker with that one.


                      MtAw Homebrew:
                      Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                      New 2E Legacies, expanded

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                        Actually, I would like for Bloodlines to be completely reworked. Right now we've got three or more different broad concepts stuffed into a single, limited design space that has to compete for a singular slot on the character sheet.
                        Yeah, though I'm not sure it's as bad as the Mage and Changeling examples. I mean, I don't think it would really be a problem if the Tremere or Scelesti used up their Legacy slot by being those, because there are other ways to get bonuses for being part of a group.

                        But I do think VtR could use some better "niche weirdness" support regardless of details.

                        Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                        Do people count Tilts as Conditions too when pointing out Condition bloat?
                        I don't, because there isn't really Tilt bloat. The Tilts are fairly set with very few additions as the CofD 2e has grown. Tilts, as they relate to powers, work like what I want to see out of Conditions. If a supernatural power cripples a limb in combat, you slap down the Arm or Leg Wrack Tilt. You don't have each splat having slightly different Tilts for things like you do with Conditions.

                        Cuz I think a lot of the “you are affected by a supernatural power” statuses could be Tilts, ‘non-combat’ Tilts.
                        There's already plenty of this is the CofD. It comes down to my #1 point: VtR suffers because it's done in parallel with the general core book and doesn't get proper integration of these sorts of mechanics.

                        The only problem is that "non-combat Tilts" are Conditions, and that's where the bloat sets in.

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                        • #13
                          Integration into the core systems yeah…

                          Maybe Majesty gets “improve Impression” and “open Doors, but for groups” powers in Social Maneuvering, while Dominate also gets “open Doors of individuals” and “forcing Doors” powers. Auspex gets Investigation powers, Celerity and Protean gets Chases powers etc. A lot of room here.


                          MtAw Homebrew:
                          Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                          New 2E Legacies, expanded

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                          • #14
                            Speaking of which — and this is a drum I'll beat for the base game as well — it would be fantastic if we could get a nice granular refinement on the organization rules to play with, considering one of the most consistent angles for Requiem has been "vampires as institutional corruption" and 2e core makes the evocative statement of elders being conspiracies unto themselves.


                            Resident Lore-Hound
                            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                            • #15
                              Remove the need to reprint the core CofD rules in every core splatbook. I would infinitely prefer that wordcount be used on actual unique mechanics and fluff.

                              Remove Conditions/Tilts. Maybe it works more smoothly face-to-face, but running online? Tracking Conditions/Tilts without physical cards has always been more frustration than it's worth. Never had issues with the old fashioned way of tracking buffs/debuffs.

                              Use the freed up word count to add more campaign-building tools for GMs. Clearer rules for making custom bloodlines. More stuff like the build-a-horror rules in CofD core. More types of antagonists: Prometheans get like... three or four build-an-antagonist rules in core. Vampires get... Strix. And that's it. Maybe more guidelines on building your Domain's government, like Changelings got for Freeholds.

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