[Crazy ideas] What would you want out of a 3ed of Requiem ?

[Heavy Arms]

The core rules in the core books is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.

A lot of people don't like having to juggle multiple core books, so having the main rule in ever core is useful for them. Others see it as a waste of space (esp. those of us that are big CofD fans and don't need 10 copies of the same thing).

I think perhaps, for 3e, it would be nice to see two versions of at least the pdfs: ones with the core rules chapter included, and ones without. With a pdf/PoD focused distribution, it's not a huge ask even if KS based books would have to settle in one direct.

[Ur-Than]

Regarding Bloodlines, I'd really like a way to design new disciplines from the ground up. It's all well and good to create a new Bloodline lore but it's really a pain in the ass to try and write entirely new disciplines... And going "yep, those are gangrels but with Auspex" is kinda of limitating in the long run, even if Bloodlines inflation is also a thing (but less than in 1ed).

Regarding core rules, I'd actually like OPP to let translators be a little freer in what they can do. In France we don't have a translated core 2ed book. It wasn't really a problem for Requiem 2ed but when Demon was translated (the second splat to be so) we had to have the GMRU update added so it'd be playable because OPP didn't allow for an addition of the core rules in the main Demon book 😕.

I also wouldn't be against more pages overall to cover Belial Brood and possibly VII as antagonists in the core book. Strix are great but more antagonists, especially vampiric ones would be great to have at hand from the start.

Edit : also, bring back a full page or two about the Unaligned/Unbound and create Lodges-like organizations for Vampires (perhaps Vampiric cults for mortals? Or gathering of very specialized Vampires like those Strix-hunters in a book, I don't remember which) and make some Unaligned-only.

[Heavy Arms]

I'm not sure how much say OPP has regarding official translations of their work on IPs other companies own. Unless handling translations is part of OPP contract with Paradox (and CCP before them), translations would go through the IP owners rather than OPP. I'd love to see the CofD books in general get to a wider audience via official translations, but that's not always feasible for a number of reasons; I highly doubt OPP doesn't want it to happen.

[Ur-Than]

I'm not sure how much say OPP has regarding official translations of their work on IPs other companies own. Unless handling translations is part of OPP contract with Paradox (and CCP before them), translations would go through the IP owners rather than OPP. I'd love to see the CofD books in general get to a wider audience via official translations, but that's not always feasible for a number of reasons; I highly doubt OPP doesn't want it to happen.

Well i know that Demon was held for a long time for validation and that Agate Studio, the French translator, can't change anything, basically. But frankly, I'm already happy to have access to the books in my native language, it's a lot easier to grasp the rules that way.

[monteparnas]

It is probable that translations stay that way because of the IP situation. The main IP is from Paradox, but OPP also have some level of copyright over the books, so any change would have to be approved by both parties.

[Ur-Than]

Yes, I think that it's what's making it harder to navigate. I also think that it's way we can expect a rather drastic change if we ever get a 3ed of CofD. I don't see Paradox wanting to have two lines too similars in lore at least, and they seem to be using rules from Requiem somewhat for V:tM, which is more popular. So i guess from a company's perspective, distancing Requiem even more could be an angle they'd use.

Which i'm not sure I'd like entirely... but if it meant making Requiem more popular, I'd be able to tank it, I guess.

[monteparnas]

At this point distancing them is unavoidable if we're ever to have a 3rd edition, or even new books whatsoever. V5 is already facing heavy in-house competition with V20, so keeping Requiem too close isn't going to happen unless Requiem becomes clearly a way to broaden horizons instead of self-competing.

[Ur-Than]

Regarding what I said earlier... what do you think about Vampiric Cults ? They could be sorts of Lodges for Vampires, each geared toward a certain goal. For instance, Invictus' could focus on accumulating power and influence in certain specific sphere, with added goals (like making sure that non-Vampire controlled individuals wouldn't be able to compete with them, etc.) Of course, it could potentially step on the feet of Mekhet's Shadow Cults... It'd need to be considered carefully...

[Ur-Than]

At this point distancing them is unavoidable if we're ever to have a 3rd edition, or even new books whatsoever. V5 is already facing heavy in-house competition with V20, so keeping Requiem too close isn't going to happen unless Requiem becomes clearly a way to broaden horizons instead of self-competing.

Yeah.

To quote a great thinker, it'd depend if Paradox sees more Requiem as a KFC 2 or as an Albuquerque Boiled Turkey. Not gonna lie, it'd rather they go ABT and truly make Requiem more distinct; the base is already here anyway (that's why I wouldn't be bothered by name changes for the three Clans which share names with V:tM personally). I just hope we'd be able to avoid the... controversies of the V5 lore.

Lacking a metaplot may help and I think writers wouldn't feel the need to gut the less savory Covenants, like the Circle of the Crone which has (thankfully) become more monstrous and inhuman in 2ed than in the 1ed.

[Heavy Arms]

If Paradox really wants to distance the WoD and CofD.... they could always sell the CofD to OPP and then have CofD 3e use the Storypath system instead... I'm not holding my breath for that, but I'd enjoy the results.

As for vampire cults? I'm not really sure how much more support that needs. What would vampire cults offer that you couldn't get out of Mystery Cult Initiation, and maybe opening up Mystery Cult Influence from Mage? Esp. that wouldn't feel redundant with Bloodlines and just the local variants of the Covenants. The Circle of Crone covers a lot of the idea of vampire cults as it is and I don't think diluting that would help the game.

[Baaldam]

Well, I wouldn't want Requiem to have too many main Clans. It'd become a mess to follow and distinguish from Masquerade I think. But I'd also like the Lords, Savages and Haunts to get different names, so as to make clear that Requiem has stopped being held by his elder, so to speak.

Easy enough to do as things currently stand - in my own games the kindred in the nations surrounding the Baltic Sea just as frequently call shadows Grettir, haunts Lindwurm, the savages Rötgrafen and so on.

Honestly i have collected a bunch of examples of "localization" and alternate names in my tables out of purloined bits of lore and the occasional repurposed bloodline name among other things. Have older vampires in countries dominated by romance languages call most haunts Vermes and treat "Nosferatu" as a fad term used only by neonates & ancillae overly influenced by modern things like cinema, undead in slavic-speaking nations referencing either Gangrel, Ventrue (or Julii) or all of them as "Vedma", depending on specific country, the word Rakshasa and variants being used for haunts across all Southeast Asia....possibilities are many, many indeed.

[Ur-Than]

Easy enough to do as things currently stand - in my own games the kindred in the nations surrounding the Baltic Sea just as frequently call shadows Grettir, haunts Lindwurm, the savages Rötgrafen and so on.

Honestly i have collected a bunch of examples of "localization" and alternate names in my tables out of purloined bits of lore and the occasional repurposed bloodline name among other things. Have older vampires in countries dominated by romance languages call most haunts Vermes and treat "Nosferatu" as a fad term used only by neonates & ancillae overly influenced by modern things like cinema, undead in slavic-speaking nations referencing either Gangrel, Ventrue (or Julii) or all of them as "Vedma", depending on specific country, the word Rakshasa and variants being used for haunts across all Southeast Asia....possibilities are many, many indeed.

That's also a very good way of changing much by changing nothing at all !

I'd like the main names to change to better reflect the varied origins of the Clans but giving a wide range of names for each Clan would be great.

But looking at V:tM board, what I'd like is to avoid a similar drama than the current V5 at all cost. Keep the names OPP, but spare us this madness !

[Marcus]

I find this a very interesting point of reflection even though I could spread a bit more further than the main discussion about clans here above.

1. I'd like to have some discipline a bit reviewed in their mechanics. I really love the concept behind every discipline, but few of them are a bit broken in how they work (rolls etc). e.g.: Auspex should be contested or more visible when used - don't like for a newbie to spot the prince, primogens etc intrigues and secrets so easily. Again, I'm fine with and I like what Auspex can do but should be more difficult to obtain the info. Same for the standard contested rolls for mental disciplines. Should be more fair the defensive roll. Vast majority of time, unless the opponent doesn't have BP 8 - 9, chance are pretty on the user side. A standard predatory aura roll, as per Majesty 1, would work indeed.

2. Art: I prefer the artistic approach of masquerade far more than requiem. I find it much more inspirational for the mood of the game AS I INTEND IT TO BE. Thus it's only my personal taste, not a judgment. I often use images and pictures from Masquerade for my campaigns although I prefer the setting and rules from requiem 2ed much more.

3. I'm fine with clans, I've grown used to the names but I could be fine to a change of such. I like Daeva in example. So I'm totally open to it. But I'd keep them low number (not strictly five, even more, but not as much as Masquerade either), and I'd like to have a bit more of lore behind any clan. Requiem in general it's a bit too open giving only rough tips - which may be fine for someone but I'd like to have some more clear detail.

4. Crit. are very hard to obtain and left pretty much to only player's will, which is taking it in calm situations just to have a beat more. I would make chance of a crit a bit higher. Not too much but passing from "almost impossible" to "could happen" so that players are not attempting to do whatever even if out of their stats.

5. Combats are quite ok but sometime are too bound to one roll. For relevant encounter I'd like to have more developed mechanics: the first who won dominate ends the combat; at high level the first who eat could send in torpor/kill the enemy in one hit (defense is pretty much useless when you get to roll 21 dice)

I'll expand this post if more pops into my mind

[Ur-Than]

I haven't see the art of V5, isn't it photo-realist ? I must admit I don't like it too much myself but to each their own.

Regarding the mechanics, I think a general rework would be in order indeed, even if I'm not knowledgeable enough to know which needs it the most and in which direction it'd make sense to go. In any case, if more Clans were added, it'd require more disciplines unique to them, and it'd be necessary to balance them out with the others, of course.

[Marcus]

I haven't see the art of V5, isn't it photo-realist ? I msut admit I don't like it too much myself but to each their own.

Regarding the mechanics, I think a general rework would be in order indeed, even if I'm not knowledgeable enough to know which needs it the most and in which direction it'd make sense to go. In any case, if more Clans were added, it'd require more disciplines unique to them, and it'd be necessary to balance them out with the others, of course.

I agree about disciplines to be added if more clans would come up. Which I don't feel the needs for new disciplines. Too many powers lead to a more confusing figure of the vampire. What we have so far makes a wonderful job already and Devotions are there to mark the differences between elders making them unique.

About art: yes, V5 is very photo-realistic and yet I wasn't referring to it specifically but also to previous versions. Illustrations are more creepy, more dark/goth. More close to my taste when speaking of vampire.
Pictures in Requiem are, for the most part of them, drawings of comics-manga. Don't know. It does not give me back the mood and feels I have looking at Masquerade/dark age books.
Requiem's Clan pictures are among the worst indeed