How does "Pledge to the Worthless One" And the Belials brood Intersect?

[Prince of the Night]

was the Author under the impression Belials brood wasnt appearing in 2nd edition I think its valid to ask.

[ArcaneArts]

1) Okay, in future, there are "Ask a simple question" threads, let's start using those.
2) Olivia Hill definitely knew that Belial's Brood was coming back.

She also knew that names are fluid things that don't have monopolistic uses. That one covenant of Vampires decided to brand themselves doesn't mean that the Circle of the Crone, a covenant that courts and brands it self with all manners of gods, spirits, fairies, ghosts, demons, and more, can't also have a feature that ties them to the idea of Belial.

In fact, since Belial's Brood is now more deeply rooted in the Beast rather than demons, it actually makes more sense for the pagan worshipping collection of cults to take up a more classically sin-driven connection to Belial than not.

Names are not all important. THe Demon, Demon, Demon problem not actually being a problem is quite illustrative of this.

[Yossarian]

1) Okay, in future, there are "Ask a simple question" threads, let's start using those.
2) Olivia Hill definitely knew that Belial's Brood was coming back.

She also knew that names are fluid things that don't have monopolistic uses. That one covenant of Vampires decided to brand themselves doesn't mean that the Circle of the Crone, a covenant that courts and brands it self with all manners of gods, spirits, fairies, ghosts, demons, and more, can't also have a feature that ties them to the idea of Belial.

In fact, since Belial's Brood is now more deeply rooted in the Beast rather than demons, it actually makes more sense for the pagan worshipping collection of cults to take up a more classically sin-driven connection to Belial than not.

Names are not all important. THe Demon, Demon, Demon problem not actually being a problem is quite illustrative of this.

Pledge of the Worthless One is a Theban Sorcery Miracle.

[ArcaneArts]

Pledge of the Worthless One is a Theban Sorcery Miracle.

This is what I get for opening my book, taking a glance, and making assumptions.

Regardless, the general point remains the same-it's ALSO not out of spec for the "We are the wolves of God" covenant to evoke demons in their quest to keep the righteous on their path and the damned in God's eternal night. Belial as a entity to pledge to fits with branding and even the metpahysics.

And again, names are just things people give you.

[Yossarian]

This is what I get for opening my book, taking a glance, and making assumptions.

Regardless, the general point remains the same-it's ALSO not out of spec for the "We are the wolves of God" covenant to evoke demons in their quest to keep the righteous on their path and the damned in God's eternal night. Belial as a entity to pledge to fits with branding and even the metpahysics.

And again, names are just things people give you.

I mean, yeah.

Anyway, my take is this: Pledge of the Worthless is an explicitly heretical spell whose users are hunted by the Sanctified. It all but screams: "Hey! This is how you join Belial's Brood! This is it! Right here! Big red X!" Obviously that changed as things went on with the series, with a different author having designed the Second Edition Brood in Spilled Blood, but like, it's not a matter of the author knowing or not knowing if it was coming back.

[ArcaneArts]

I mean, yeah.

Anyway, my take is this: Pledge of the Worthless is an explicitly heretical spell whose users are hunted by the Sanctified. It all but screams: "Hey! This is how you join Belial's Brood! This is it! Right here! Big red X!" Obviously that changed as things went on with the series, with a different author having designed the Second Edition Brood in Spilled Blood, but like, it's not a matter of the author knowing or not knowing if it was coming back.

That said, it's insane to assume that Olivia didn't know, particularly since she commented on it back when the grousing about Belial's Brood lack of inclusion in the core. She may not have known the final form, but trying to say she didn't know that there was A plan to bring them back is.....lacking.

[Yossarian]

That said, it's insane to assume that Olivia didn't know, particularly since she commented on it back when the grousing about Belial's Brood lack of inclusion in the core. She may not have known the final form, but trying to say she didn't know that there was A plan to bring them back is.....lacking.

The official word was always that they didn't really have the space to do them justice in the core, so they'd show up eventually (which, they did). It was pretty well-established that they were coming back, but I don't blame the OP for not knowing that, even if I think maybe their question overlooks a pretty obvious subtext. 2E's been out for almost 8 years, after all.

Digression: I didn't shed too many tears about the Brood not being in the core, as VII and the Strix are much more compelling. That said, and while the Triatic Evolution mechanics are too player-facing (IMHO), the new Brood is a really fun take on the concept. Less gonzo than the original version, certainly, but the original version was really gonzo.

[ArcaneArts]

The official word was always that they didn't really have the space to do them justice in the core, so they'd show up eventually (which, they did). It was pretty well-established that they were coming back, but I don't blame the OP for not knowing that, even if I think maybe their question overlooks a pretty obvious subtext. 2E's been out for almost 8 years, after all.

Digression: I didn't shed too many tears about the Brood not being in the core, as VII and the Strix are much more compelling. That said, and while the Triatic Evolution mechanics are too player-facing (IMHO), the new Brood is a really fun take on the concept. Less gonzo than the original version, certainly, but the original version was really gonzo.

Agreed on all fronts.

[Ur-Than]

The official word was always that they didn't really have the space to do them justice in the core, so they'd show up eventually (which, they did). It was pretty well-established that they were coming back, but I don't blame the OP for not knowing that, even if I think maybe their question overlooks a pretty obvious subtext. 2E's been out for almost 8 years, after all.

Digression: I didn't shed too many tears about the Brood not being in the core, as VII and the Strix are much more compelling. That said, and while the Triatic Evolution mechanics are too player-facing (IMHO), the new Brood is a really fun take on the concept. Less gonzo than the original version, certainly, but the original version was really gonzo.

Yeah, I really prefer the new Brood over the former, which was very much "Sabbat" in Requiem.

Some of this original Brood's darkness settled in the Circle in 2ed and the Covenant is better for it. I don't own Spilled Blood so I can't judge the mechanics but I think that the very concept of intelligent draugr is absolutely terrifying, especially for Vampires clinging to their Humanity.

Also, I wish VII had had something more in the core and since. Perhaps not a whole book dedicated to them since its kind of break their mysterious aura bit definitively a tad more to play with mechanic-wise would have been great.