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Kerberos Bloodline

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  • #31
    You do know that Disciplines also only cost 3-4 exp each time you raise them right? And you never picked and chose which levels you bought?

    Nothings changed there except there are only flat costs. You NEVER EVER in the system multiply the cost by the dots.

    To buy 1-5 in an in clan discipline, you pay 15 exp. 3 for the first dot, 3 for the second, etc.

    You keep mentioning 'like disciplines' but disciplines don't work any different than anything else in the way the dots are bought.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Rani Neferet View Post
      You do know that Disciplines also only cost 3-4 exp each time you raise them right? And you never picked and chose which levels you bought?

      Nothings changed there except there are only flat costs. You NEVER EVER in the system multiply the cost by the dots.

      To buy 1-5 in an in clan discipline, you pay 15 exp. 3 for the first dot, 3 for the second, etc.

      You keep mentioning 'like disciplines' but disciplines don't work any different than anything else in the way the dots are bought.
      Please note that I differentiate between new disciplines and old disciplines in different posts. I have been informed already about the fact that all traits have a flat cost after GMG.

      My nitpick is with the wording "Each maneuver is a prerequisite for the next in its sequence." p.158 GMRU alongside the use of "prerequisite" as a Merit system term e.g. some Merits prerequisite other Merits.

      My question is, why are Style Merits a special kind of thing needing special mention and a special rule, when they aren't and the rule is the same as for everything else? Is this rule clarifying anything? Am I misunderstanding logic or the English language? Am I to assume "If the prerequisites mention a covenant, the Merit requires a single dot of the appropriate Covenant Status to purchase." p.109 B&S means that the Covenant Status is free. I think not.

      To reiterate I know the costs don't scale with the number of dots bought in the post-GMC nWoD. What I am arguing for is clarity of meaning in the wording of rules. Style Merits can be misconstrued (as I did at first, but not any more) self-contained Merit trees. Emphasis of flat costs does nothing to alleviate this, if they are seen as separate Merits instead of benefits of the one Style merit.

      PM me if you have any more questions about my argument.

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      • #33
        Cult initiation is very powerful, as is professional training. The St should take steps to balance it by requiring the IC fluff to be met. Cult initiation means you're part of a cult, with all the problems that entails. Professional training requires you to continue doing that profession, keeping up your network and so on.

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        • #34
          I think the bloodline is good, but not excessively so. I mean you get your blood potency as bonus to rolls pursuing your beast aspect after you defeat another when lashing out. So if its a draw or the other chooses the flight option nothing extraordianry happens (without the merit).
          Also do note that you have to pick the merit for each different aspect of the beast, which I think goes a long way in making the bloodline more... tame. Even when inflicting the subservient condition its only for commands that align to the specific beast aspect.

          The only thing that confuses me is the whole inflict upon yourself the bestial conditions. If you have resolved them in the last month its impossible to inflict them again. Right?

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          • #35
            I don't like that dot because it serves no purpose besides generating Beats.


            I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
              I don't like that dot because it serves no purpose besides generating Beats.

              No it serves another purpose. It makes the Kereberos immune at will to being subjected to the respective conditions of losing to another for Lashing out even if they would have gotten their ass handed to them by someone they tried to slap around who had the Cutthroat, Enticing, or Atrocious merits. Not only do they get a cheap counter to a series of merits, but they get xp for using such a cheesy tactic.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Audrey St. John View Post


                No it serves another purpose. It makes the Kereberos immune at will to being subjected to the respective conditions of losing to another for Lashing out even if they would have gotten their ass handed to them by someone they tried to slap around who had the Cutthroat, Enticing, or Atrocious merits. Not only do they get a cheap counter to a series of merits, but they get xp for using such a cheesy tactic.

                nop, that doesn't give you full immunity. You just become immune to the condition.. the +2 bonus for winning still works (unless you use flight.. but then the opponent won anyways)


                My Bloodline conversions
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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                  Y'know, since the Kerberos make heavy use of Predatory Aura, it kind of stinks that it can only be applied once a month.

                  Originally posted by Howalt View Post
                  Does the once a month limit still apply?
                  Bestial, Competitive and Wanton conditions have the once a month restrictions associated with them and not Predatory Aura. This means while you may be able to actually apply an aura to someone as many times as you are capable of trying, you might not be able to afflict their associated conditions on them, but they are 100% affected by the rest of the aura.

                  ​Cowing (the three dot) allows you to apply Subservient in place of the other conditions for being successful. Subservient does not have the once a month restriction that Bestial, Competitive and Wanton have, so you can apply as many times as you are allowed attempts against a person.

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                  • #39
                    Internalizing (the two dot) for The Three Heads of Kerberos actually makes a lot of sense and allows a character to inoculate herself against the Bestial, Competitive and Wonton conditions in a controlled environment. This makes a lot sense to do because this bloodline is going to lash out more than any other kindred and expose themselves to being lashed out against in retaliation and possibly lose.

                    The beat part of the merit make sense since Kerberos are much closer to their beast and they use it to gain a better understanding of themselves and their beast, whereas any other vampire is simply weakened by it. It is worth pointing out that there are other merits that grant beats when certain circumstances are met, and I am sure more will be written.

                    You must consider the drawbacks of the Bestial, Competitive and Wanton Conditions, and they are very sever and difficult to resolve, making it more likely they are going to mess themselves up in the process of getting that beat. In reality they are more likely to mess themselves up and fail at getting that beat than they are to succeed.

                    A good storyteller will make a player using Internalizing actually earn the beats while making the process engaging. A bad or lazy ST will simply hand out the beats.

                    The Balance is there. Internalize represents the theme of the Kerberos. Most importantly it promotes creative play and storytelling. This merit should stay the way it is written.

                    I also forgot to mention that no one wants someone else's beast being used on them, even if they are trying to get a benefit from it. Not only is it unpleasant, it leaves witness that are aware of your weakened state. These witnesses may try to sell that information to others, be forced to give that information up, exploit it themselves, among many other horrible things that could happen.
                    Last edited by Maskah; 09-09-2014, 06:20 PM.

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                    • #40
                      I thought it worth mentioning that The Hound of Hell is actually a weakness if you are BP 1 and meaningless if you are BP2. The way it is currently written it gives you a +1 at BP1, which is lower than the normal +2. At BP2 you get +2, which is exactly the same as the +2 you would normally get.
                      For this to actually be a benefit it should be a bonus equal to 1 + BP.

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                      • #41
                        Considering how Typhon was described to look like? I'm curious to see what forms they take with Protean.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                          Considering how Typhon was described to look like? I'm curious to see what forms they take with Protean.
                          I can see the bloodline developing devotions to manifest the aspects of Typhon. Bloodlines often do that in order to support their legends.

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                          • #43
                            "Come on Gangrel, turn into a beast!"

                            "A beast? Bitch, I can turn into every beast!"

                            Hah!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Maskah View Post
                              I thought it worth mentioning that The Hound of Hell is actually a weakness if you are BP 1 and meaningless if you are BP2. The way it is currently written it gives you a +1 at BP1, which is lower than the normal +2. At BP2 you get +2, which is exactly the same as the +2 you would normally get.
                              For this to actually be a benefit it should be a bonus equal to 1 + BP.

                              There are two parts of the Hound of Hell benefit. The first part really doesn't become a benefit until BP3. But you can always add your dots to lash out attempts. I didn't explicitly state this, but it's a benefit that becomes more beneficial later.


                              David A Hill Jr
                              Freelance Writer
                              Independent Game Designer

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by MachineIV View Post


                                There are two parts of the Hound of Hell benefit. The first part really doesn't become a benefit until BP3. But you can always add your dots to lash out attempts. I didn't explicitly state this, but it's a benefit that becomes more beneficial later.
                                I noticed that. In the new system you can get a bloodline at BP 1, meaning this is a penalty and a weakness until BP2 and no real benefit until BP3. In your description of The Hound of Hell you wrote, "This advantage (birthright), gives the Kerberos an edge in any interactions with the beast." I strongly feel that my minor tweak is balanced and does away with an unnecessary penalty that does not make sense and even better matches that description.

                                Outside of that I thought the mechanics for the bloodline were very solid.

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