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  • I've read the stuff where the weakness don't take effect until Humanity 6, but I haven't read anything about weaknesses getting worse as time goes along. I need to go look for the source. I was under the impression that once activated, the weaknesses didn't change (unless you got new banes and the like).

    Actually, did we get any spoilers as to what the bloodlines will look like in B&S? I like being correct according to RAW (unless I have a problem with a rule or something).

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    • Originally posted by DivineWrath View Post
      I've read the stuff where the weakness don't take effect until Humanity 6, but I haven't read anything about weaknesses getting worse as time goes along. I need to go look for the source. I was under the impression that once activated, the weaknesses didn't change (unless you got new banes and the like).

      Actually, did we get any spoilers as to what the bloodlines will look like in B&S? I like being correct according to RAW (unless I have a problem with a rule or something).
      Well, CLAN weaknesses are exacerbated by and based on humanity. The lower it is, the bigger of a penalty/restriction that your weakness is. There are two that are more arguable, the Mekhet, which use up one of their banes as a clan bane (Which many have humanity factored in), and the Ventrue who use up a touchstone early, (So they have to spend experience immediately to gain more or maintain a higher humanity rating).

      The only thing I've heard about bloodlines is the lift on blood potency restriction of joining your sire's bloodline.

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      • Clan weaknesses worsen as you degenerate, but IIRC there's nothing in B&S that requires Bloodline weaknesses scale with humanity.


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        • Clan weaknesses actually get worse as you get closer to the beast? I haven't heard of that yet. That might be a great way to help make Humanity mean even more to the players, and their characters. Can anyone post a link back to that information?

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          • Two ideas that has been on my mind:

            Forced March (Celerity 2, Resilience 2)

            Cost: 2 Vitae
            Dice Pool: None
            Action: Reflexive
            Duration: One Scene (One hour)
            This devotion serves as a popular means of overland transportation for Kindred who have learned to toughen their bodies to withstand the dizzying power of Celerity enough to aid their movement for hours on end. The vampire can reflexively spend Vitae to increase her running speed, multiplying her speed by [Celerity + 1] for one hour. While this version of Celerity is invoked, the Kindred cannot use any of Celerity's other active functions without disabling the Forced March, requiring it to be reactivated.
            This Devotion Costs 2 Experiences to Learn


            Vaulting (Vigor 2)

            Cost: 1 Vitae
            Dice Pool: None
            Action: Reflexive
            Duration: One Turn

            This easily formulated Devotion allows the Kindred to spend 1 Vitae reflexively to multiply the amount of feet jumped by a Successful Strength + Athletics roll by her Vigor dots plus two. This allows the Vampire to jump even greater distances than the enhanced strength of Vigor typically allows. Obviously this power might be a Masquerade breach for anyone who witnesses the unnatural capability of the Kindred.

            Example: Diana is a Daeva who wants to make a vertical standing jump up on top of a semitruck, which is 12 feet tall. She rolls 4 successes on her Strength + Athletics + Vigor roll, allowing her to jump 4 feet up in the air. She spends 1 Vitae reflexively to activate Vaulting, which given her Vigor of 3, increases her jump height from 4 feet to 20 feet in the air. She deftly lands on top of the truck.
            This Devotion Costs 1 Experience to Learn


            In a running jump, the current version of Vaulting would let a Size 5 Kindred with 4 successes cross a distance of 105 feet with Vigor 3. Pretty freaky.
            Last edited by Leetsepeak; 12-10-2013, 03:56 PM.


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            • I'd consider dropping Vaulting down to 1 Experience, it's pretty circumstantial and gets a little obsolete with high Vigor. Alternatively, you could have it double Vigor dots for a single Jump, which makes for amazingly massive leaps at high Vigor, but give it more scaling utility (Plus, an Elder vaulting straight up a skyscraper is super cool)


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              • Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                I'd consider dropping Vaulting down to 1 Experience, it's pretty circumstantial and gets a little obsolete with high Vigor. Alternatively, you could have it double Vigor dots for a single Jump, which makes for amazingly massive leaps at high Vigor, but give it more scaling utility (Plus, an Elder vaulting straight up a skyscraper is super cool)
                Yeah, I'll revise it.

                That's kind of what I was going for with this version. I was just thinking that the multiplicative effect would actually lend itself to generally higher leaps than just double the dots you've got for the dicepool, y'know?

                At the risk of traversing territory which is antithetical to the nWoD design philosophy, what if it took a page out of Potence and cost 2 Vitae, but allowed you to add your Vigor in successes to the roll? Automatic successes can be powerful, but I mean... It's jumping. It'd be cool.


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                • Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post

                  Yeah, I'll revise it.

                  That's kind of what I was going for with this version. I was just thinking that the multiplicative effect would actually lend itself to generally higher leaps than just double the dots you've got for the dicepool, y'know?

                  At the risk of traversing territory which is antithetical to the nWoD design philosophy, what if it took a page out of Potence and cost 2 Vitae, but allowed you to add your Vigor in successes to the roll? Automatic successes can be powerful, but I mean... It's jumping. It'd be cool.
                  Wait... *double check's Reap the Whirlwind*

                  Ah, I see the disconnect. The final version of Vigor has leaping multipliers built in, so doubling them would make for colossal leaps (up to x11).


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                  • Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                    Forced March (Celerity 2, Resilience 2)

                    Cost: Special (See below)
                    Dice Pool: None
                    Action: Reflexive
                    Duration: One Scene (One hour)
                    This devotion serves as a popular means of overland transportation for Kindred who have learned to toughen their bodies to withstand the dizzying power of Celerity enough to aid their movement for hours on end. The vampire can reflexively spend Vitae to increase her running speed, multiplying her speed by [Vitae Spent + 1] for one hour. She may spend up to [Celerity] dots Vitae in this manner at one time. While this version of Celerity is invoked, the Kindred cannot use any of Celerity's other active functions without disabling the Forced March, requiring it to be reactivated.
                    This Devotion Costs 2 Experiences to Learn
                    I don't like it. What I liked about the original version was that you could run at high speeds for hours. You could in theory run the distance between towns. Now with the changes you made, it is less powerful that it was. It now costs more vitae to activate (the rate used to 1/2 Celerity dots used rounded up, now its equal to Celerity dots used). It also now only lasts 1 hour, instead of the potential 5 hours with Resilience 5. The original version said nothing interupting the use of this devotion, so I'm unsure if I should have a problem with it.

                    I suppose the only fixes it needed was the xp costs, maybe the phrasing, and possibly the prerequisites.

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                    • Thorbes did such a good job on converting Cachexy I felt inspired to write a few Devotions, then one thing led to another and I ended up with a touched up version of the Bloodline and Discipline as well. Figured I'd share them:

                      Bloodline:
                      Morbus
                      Clan: Nosferatu

                      Bloodline Disciplines: Cachexy, Nightmare, Obfuscate, Animalism

                      Bloodline Bane: Plague Hunger

                      Those of the Morbus bloodline are forever cursed to wallow in filth and disease. A morbus cannot feed on clean blood, it is vile to her, unpalatable. Only the blood of the ill can sustain her, the more virulent the infection, the more delicious the yield.


                      Devotions:
                      Horrid Wasting (Cachexy 4)
                      Cost: 2 Vitae
                      Normally Cachexy takes days or weeks to kill a person, but with Horrid Wasting the disease runs it’s course in mere hours. This enhances the Infected condition, changing the roll intervals from days to hours. Additionally the rapid wasting takes a terrible toll, with massive pustules and wilting skin, damage deal is upgraded to Aggravated.
                      This Devotion Costs 3 Experiences to Learn

                      Lord of the Dead (Cachexy 5, Animalism 3)
                      Cost: None, Enhances Pandemia
                      Larvae created through pandemia are directionless, acting only on their urge to consume. Lord of the dead changes that, allowing the Morbus to control his Infected zombies as she can common beasts. She treats all Larvae stemming from her usage of Pandemia (i.e. not the Larvae of other Morbus) as beasts for the purposes of Animalism powers.
                      This Devotion Costs 5 Experiences to Learn

                      Collective Paranoia (Nightmare 4, Cachexy 3)
                      Cost: 1 Vitae
                      Dice Pool: None, Enhances The Grand Delusion and Waking Nightmare
                      Fusing Nightmare and Cachexy the Morbus creates a new form of infection, a mental virus. By spending an additional point of Vitae while invoking The Grand Delusion (Nightmare 3) or Waking Nightmare (Nightmare 4) the Morbus gives the victim the Carrier condition with regards to the Nightmare power. The condition is modified as follows:
                      • The Grand Delusion: Anyone who hears the victim speak of his false belief risks infection with the same notion. He must roll [Resolve + Blood Potency] penalized by the Morbus’s Blood Potency, or take on the same delusion.
                      • Waking Nightmare: Anyone present while the victim is experiencing the illusion (seeing it, hearing it, etc.) also begins to experience the same illusion unless she succeeds a [Composure + Blood Potency] roll penalized by the Morbus’s Blood Potency.
                      This may be combined with Black Death to spread the Carrier condition as well, creating short lived but intense bouts of mass paranoia.
                      This Devotion Costs 4 Experiences to Learn.

                      Silent Death (Cachexy 3, Obfuscate 2)
                      Cost: 1 Vitae
                      Dice Pool: None, Enhances Infection
                      The silver lining of Infection is that symptoms set in early on, giving victims enough warning that they may be able to see out medical aid while it can still help him. Silent Death strips away even that hope. By spending an additional point of Vitae while using Infection or Contagion the Morbus may opt to remove all symptoms. No fever or nausea, no compounding penalties, nothing beyond a steady tick of daily damage. Victims infected in this way show no signs of carrying the Cachexy virus, and have no idea anything is wrong until the disease has reached one of their last three health levels (at which point wound penalties set in).
                      This Devotion Costs 2 Experiences to Learn.


                      Modified Discipline:
                      Bloodline Discipline: Cachexy

                      NOTE: All credit for this discipline goes to Thorbes on the Onyx Path Forums. His original variation can be viewed here.
                      Infection
                      Cost: None
                      The Morbus is a walking plague, every time she interacts with a mortal there is a chance he gets infected. The disease is not natural, it is an extension of the Curse that weakens and drains life. Whenever a mortal (meaning a living being, not other vampires, Promehteans, etc) gets into direct contact with the vampire, she can decide to try to infect him with the disease. Open wounds or contact with the blood of the vampire increases the chances. The victim must make a reflexive Stamina+Resolve roll, penalized by the Morbus’s Blood Potency if the victim has an open wound or comes into contact with her blood. On a Failure, he gains the Infected Condition.

                      New Condition: Infected
                      Effect: The character has been infected by Cachexy. He suffers a penalty to all rolls due to nausea, weakness or general malaise equal to the Morbus’s Cachexy dots.
                      Each day afterwards he must succeed a [Stamina+Resolve] roll, penalized by the Morbus’s Blood Potency, or suffer a point of Bashing damage (two on a Dramatic Failure).
                      Damage from this Condition cannot be healed by any mundane means. Magical treatment enters a Clash of Wills.
                      Resolution: a number of successful rolls to resist the disease equal to the vampire's Blood Potency are made (Exceptional Successes counts twice). After this Condition is discarded the penalties to all rolls disappear at a rate of 1 per day. The character is immune to Cachexy for as long as he keeps these penalties.
                      Beat: if the penalties from this Condition brought you down to a Chance Die and you failed as a result, gain a Beat. To be able to reap the Beat, the penalties from this Condition must represent at least half of the total penalties applied to the roll. Rolls to resist the damage from this Condition are excluded.

                      Contagion ••
                      Cost: 1 Vitae
                      Dice Pool: None
                      Action: Reflexive
                      Duration: Scene
                      The Morbus radiates a infection, even those who do not touch her may still be at risk. For the rest of the Scene, anyone who comes within [Blood Potency * Cachexy] yards of the Morbus may risks infection (as per Cachexy 1). Those vulnerable must roll to resist after spending a about a minute near the Morbus, or immediately if they have any open wounds. Success protects the victim against further infection from Contagion for the rest of the scene, though Infection may still affect them.

                      Patient Zero•••
                      Cost: 1 Vitae.
                      Dice Pool: none, Enhances Infection
                      As a Morbus rises in power Cachexy becomes increasingly virulent. With Patient Zero her infection may now spread from victim to victim. By spending an additional point of Vitae when using Infection the Morbus also confers the Carrier condition.

                      Carrier
                      Your character has become a hub for the Cachexy virus, he can transmit the Infected Condition to others you came into with him. This uses the same rules as Infection, save that the carrier cannot choose not to convey the condition, anyone who touches him is automatically at risk. Penalties and resolution are calculated using the original Morbus’s Cachexy and Blood Potency.
                      Resolution: when you discard the Infected Condition, discard this Condition as well.
                      Beat: The first time you spread the Infected Condition in a Chapter, gain a Beat.

                      Black Death••••
                      Cost: 2 Vitae.
                      Dice Pool: none, Enhances Infection.
                      At this level of Cachexy it’s virulence becomes so extreme that even the dead must fear it. By spending two additional Vitae when using Infection the Morbus may apply one of the following effects:
                      • Vampires and other undead (or Prometheans and similar para-living creatures) can now also be affected by any of the previous powers of this Discipline.
                      • The Infected condition now deals lethal damage, instead of bashing. Furthermore the number of successful rolls needed to recover becomes [Blood Potency + Cachexy]
                      • Used in conjunction Patient Zero the victim can also pass along the Carrier condition, as can anyone he infects.
                      Pandemia •••••
                      Cost: None
                      With this level of mastery the Morbus achieves the perfect infection, one that carries on even after the host’s death, and attempts violently to infect others. Only victims infected by the Morbus’s bite (or that of his Larvae) can contract Pandemia. If one such victim dies while under either the Infected condition he rises again within 24 hours as a Larva, with the Carrier condition (but not Infected). These larva will not attack the undead, but are otherwise completely uncontrolled. They will attempt constantly to feed and, as a result, spread Pandemia.


                      Alternatively view it all in Gdocs: here.
                      Last edited by PenDragon; 12-10-2013, 03:01 PM.


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                      • Those Devotions and Pandemia sound positively diabolical. I like.

                        Out of curiousity for the Bane, is "the more virulent the infection, the more delicious the yield." flavor text or are there mechanics you've got in mind?

                        So I simplified the version of Forced March in my post to what I feel is an equitable balance between the two. You spend 2 Vitae, you get Celerity's Speed boost for an hour. I feel that the 2 Vitae per hour makes it adequately costly that it's still very challenging to make significant journeys for a Kindred, but hopefully this version also doesn't make it impossible. You might have to hit up a Gas Station for a refuel between towns.
                        Last edited by Leetsepeak; 12-10-2013, 03:58 PM.


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                        • Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                          Those Devotions and Pandemia sound positively diabolical. I like.

                          Out of curiousity for the Bane, is "the more virulent the infection, the more delicious the yield." flavor text or are there mechanics you've got in mind?
                          Yeah, that was just flavor text. Systemizing degrees of infection and blood quality is waaaay to much work, and grossly over-complicates what should be a simple bane.

                          P.S. I can't send PMs right now, so I'm not deliberately ignoring you're messages.


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                          • I like your changes, PenDragon. Very Nice

                            And the Devotions are wicked! EDIT: Horrid Wasting could also work as a Celerity + Cachexy Devotion.
                            Last edited by Thorbes; 12-10-2013, 05:59 PM.


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                            • Can I just say that I still think Rat King is a pretty awesome Bane and that the idea that springs to mind for it is to use it with a Gangrel or Nosferatu Bloodline that specializes in animalism/protean with a devotion that lets them become a swarm of smaller animals. I think there was a merit in the Gangrel clanbook to that effect.

                              Hell, Rat Kings might even make for a good name. All those rats connected at the tail, strikes me as symbolicaly reminiscient of a swarm connected by the mind of the Kindred its made up of, y'know?

                              While I'm not much for DnD, I have to admit one of the things I keep thinking of is using Protean 3 to become a giant spider monster would be cool as hell. Maybe a devotion between Protean, Vigor and Resilience?


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                              • Originally posted by Thorbes View Post
                                I like your changes, PenDragon. Very Nice

                                And the Devotions are wicked! EDIT: Horrid Wasting could also work as a Celerity + Cachexy Devotion.
                                Thanks, it required very little tweaking, and really just changes to fit my tastes. Your version remains very solid.

                                As for Horrid Wasting, I try on all these to include a single discipline devotion that is, essentially, an alternative 5th dot (you'll note I've don't the same for the other custom disciplines as well). Super-rapid murder virus felt appropriate for that level.


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